what is the secret of a nice finish ?

[EMistral]

Hi all,

I am currently making a cabinet which has door panels made of several boards of 1cm thick and glued together
although they were nicely cut, you can still see the thin joint between the boards
what I would like to know is the secret for finishing - if there is any - so that once it is stained or finished it is pretty hard to see these joints
when I go to a furnitures shop and see these big wooden tables, I am assuming that it is not only one big board but several joined together. And it is pretty hard to see the joint.
Of course it is their job and I don't expect to reach such level of "perfection" but if I could minimize the visual effect, I would be happy
I have tried the wood filler solution but it never works. It is pretty hard to find the same colour and even if you find something close enough, when you stained, the wood filler comes always brighter then worsening the expecting result
but maybe it's just me not using the wood filler correctly
I tried also mixing the saw dust with the wood glue to create an homogeneous paste but when it starts to dry it darkens
So I was thinking that maybe the secret lies in the finishing ?
thanks

[Ian Runge]

Hi Emistral,

You wrote ...
"Of course it is their job and I don't expect to reach such level of "perfection" but if I could minimize the visual effect, I would be happy "

I don't claim to be any kind of expert here, but I'll go out on a limb and suggest that edge joining boards so that you can hardly see the join is NOT a big ask even for an amateur woodworker. It is also one of the most satisfying things to do.

Of course the real key is making sure that the edges to be joined are straight and true, but there are reams of books and posts that discuss this, so I won't go any further into this for now.

My suggestion, particularly since you are talkling about boards only 10 mm thick is this:

1) Start with a board 25mm or so thick, and re-saw it. After dressing up this will give you two boards about 10mm thick with nearly identical grain pattern (both sides of the resawn cut). Now place them side by side (bookmatched).

2) The board should be longer than you need (perhaps 100mm longer). Then when you are placing them side-by-side you can slide one of them up and down to get a better match. It is surprising how only a few inches up or down allows a grain match that looks like it was made that way. Also longer boards mean you can cut off the ends later often avoiding the end effects that are sometimes a problem with thicknessed and/or planed/jointed boards.

3) Quarter-sawn boards show less character but are better from a "disguising the join" viewpoint. Boards that have colour change on one side (like a bit of sap wood on the edge of a board that is otherwise heartwood) also are great to hide book-matched joins, because you get this change of colour across the joined board and on casual observation it is hard to see the join in the midst of the colour change.

Hope this helps,

Ian R

[EMistral]

Thanks
That's exactly what I did last night
I had a board (actually a couple) that are 21cm wide and 3cm thick so I careful split in 2 pieces of 10cm and took care of marking which part was the top, bottom, left and right side so that once joined together they could match perfectly
I also did that to preserve the grain, patterns, etc...
I split them in 2 so now I have 4 boards of 1cm thick and once again I took care of marking the position of the boards so that they can be reassembled nicely
The result is satisfying because the grain and patterns are matching between boards, etc....
But I still want to minize the visual effect of the joint between boards
thanks for your advices anyway

[DaveInOz]

Did you re-saw the edges to be joined, or plane / joint them to ensure they were perfectly straight and flat?

When book matching, a 0.25mm deviation in the board edge will be doubled and 0.5mm is very visable. Each board needs to be seperatly planed / jointed to ensure a good fit.

[Ian Runge]

I agree with DaveinOz. Assuming the grain and colour can be nicely matched, the issue is the straightness of the join.

If I was doing this job, I'd run the boards together through the jointer, faces sides together, so if the jointer fence is a little off 90 deg. the angles plus or minus cancel out. I'd also take it slow through the jointer to minimise the undulations. But still I find it is not uncommon to get slight gaps when placed together using only hand pressure - so I nearly always finish each piece off with a hand plane.

If you don't have a jointer, then this is also not a hard job with a hand plane - but I'd recommend a shooting board if you have one or can make one. With a hand plane getting a nice straight edge is straight forward but I find with thin pieces, without a shooting board, I don't have the skill or talent to get the edge exactly 90 deg. to the board. Then when glue up you either get a flat final board with a gap, or a not-flat board with no gap.
Alternatively you could hand plane the two edges together, face sides together, so again any slight angle off 90 deg. will be compensated when the boards come together.

If all else fails, then instead of disguising the imprecise join I recommend you make a feature of it .... run a small groove down the join and either leave it like that or add a little inlay.

Ian R.

[EMistral]

thanks

This is what I did last night
As I mentioned early the results are quite satisfying for me also I would like to have this joint less visible

I had a 21cm wide board by 3cm thick
I cut the 21cm wide in 2 pieces of 10.5cm each in order to be able to rip them with my triton workbench (I know not the ideal tool !)
So I rip 2mm on each side of each board
Then I split the boards in 2 giving me 4 boards of 1cm each
As I said I carefully marked the board to remember exactly where they were located in the board so that the grain and pattern match.
Then I aligned the boards by respecting the order and slightly removed 1mm of each side
when side by side, the gap is probably 0.5mm or less
as I said I am quite happy with that but since it is a small door panel (45cm high) and on the side, it is less prone to be seen
but being a perfectionist, I'd like to go further

if by a jointer you mean a biscuit joiner, I have a GMC one
otherwise if it is a different tool, I don't have it
I also don't have a hand plan (I know , I know that's me next purchase)

[craigb]

If you don't have a jointer (no, not a biscuit joiner) or a hand plane, then you've done well to even get a 0.5 mm gap IMO.

You won't get it any better without using either one of those tools

[EMistral]

ok
so I guess for my next project I better have to buy a jointer or a hand plane
Sorry for my ignorance but what does a jointer look like ?

[craigb]

Like one of these:
http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/JETWood/Tools/JJ6CSX.html

[EMistral]

well I guess I will stick with the hand planer or electric planer since the jointer might be very expensive

[DarrylF]

Good suggestions - but a couple more for you:

Good glue helps. Get some Titebond from Carbatec if possible.

Staining is for factories to attempt to make pine look like real timber - not for cabinetmakers. It will make joints and imperfections stand out like the dog's proverbials.

Putty is for woodbutchers, or chippies to fill nail holes in architraves - not for cabinetmakers.

Buy a hand plane. Seriously. Read up on how to tune one and find yourself a good old Stanley #5 on eBay. Under $100 easy - I bought a nice 80+ year old US made type 11 for $46 + postage recently. Glued up & refinished the tote, sharpened & cleaned it and it's brilliant to use now.

[outback]

At the risk of creating another junkie.
I must endorse daryls remarks regarding buying older gear off Ebay or other outlets

If you shop around, search the net and ask questions here, you will quickly find that building a quality collection of handtools. Old tool steel which was used in the standard tools produced by Stanley etc. is much higher than the stuff offered today.
An old plane bought for next to nothing, then tuned will out perform anything the hardware shop down the road will sell you.

I know this as I am in the process of building my collection. My search list for ebay is a mile long and growing, but hell its satisfying.

[AlexS]

All the above is good advice. One other thing which may be an issue depending on the type of timber - if you bookmatch, you will always get different reflection from each board, because the grain is running in opposite directions. It's more obvious on some timbers than others, and often not at all until you've put a finish on. This will immediately draw the eye to the join. If you do a running match - ie each board laid up the same way - you won't get this effect.

[EMistral]

Thanks all
I checked Carbatec website for the titebond glue but which one to choose ?
or is there another one available ?

The original aliphatic resin or the extended wood glue ?
it seems the resin one is the best option

anybody knows a shop in Mlebourne selling that glue ?
I don't mind ordering on the net but I'll take the 3.7 litres and if I ahve to pay $30 for shipping, that's a bit too much
Carbatec charged me $10 shipping for a dowel guide that weighs 200-300g so I am a bit scared of what they will charge me for a 3.7 litres can that might weighs 3 kilos

[EMistral]

Sorry to bother you but something I forgot to ask in the previous post:
how do you choose a plane ?
DarrylF mentioned a #5 plane.
I have just checked on ebay and there are #52, #55, #14, #101, etc....

What does this number mean ?
Is it related to the type of usage the plane will perform ?