Problems with French Polish

[silentC]

I bought a bottle of pre-mixed Feast & Watson French Polish from the local hardware. For all I know, Feast & Watson are the Ryobi of the finishing world but it's supposedly just Shellac mixed with metho. I wanted to finish some cedar frames.

It was pretty much drying on the brush as I used it so I thought I would thin it a bit using metho. After it dried, it went a bit patchy, with some sections taking on a creamy off-white colour. I rubbed back with steel wool and put on another coat, to much the same affect.

As it turns out, the missus likes the affect, which is all that really matters. It looks to me like an old bit of window moulding where someone's had a go at stripping all the paint off and gave up halfway. Sort of weathered, antique look. Doesn't look too bad polished up.

But just in case I ever want to get a proper finish out of the stuff, can anyone point out what might have caused it? My first thought was the metho but I tried a bit straight from the bottle and got the same result. I've used the same stuff on some hardwood where I applied it with a cloth while the piece was spinning on the lathe and it came up fine.

No, I don't have the Polisher's Handbook. When the credit card has recovered from the Christmas shopping, I'll be putting in my order.

[Cliff Rogers]

G'day.

Sounds like moisture.

By your own process of elimination,
it's not the metho, it's the timber.

[silentC]

Cliff,

The timber is western red cedar and it's been sitting in a rack under my house for about 4 years. I'm fairly certain it's dry, in fact I wondered if it was the dryness that caused the problem. It sucked the first coat in straight away and it took on a powdery look, although it wasn't powdery to the touch.

Perhaps I've introduced moisture into the equation. It has been raining here for the last week, is it likely that the outside humidity might have something to do with it?

[Cliff Rogers]

Yeap, I live in the tropics & fix computers.

It's been very dry up here, 2 failed wet seasons.
As soon as it rains, things fail everywhere due to the moisture in the dust build up on the circuit boards around the fans.

If you have any more of that timber, sit it in the sun for a while or
a dry room for even longer & then try it again.

Here's a little quote from Neil's book &, granted, it is talking about a different finish but it still has some relevance here...
TIMBER: You may have a timber that just won't respond to this finish. This may be due to many causes, moisture, rot, oil, grain structure, etc.

Without looking at the problem & from what you have said so far,
I still reckon the moisture content of the timber is too high.

You might even like to try a sample on a couple of different bits of timber & see what results you get.
Maybe that western red cedar you have is buggered in which case you can always send it to me for firewood.

[silentC]

Maybe that western red cedar you have is buggered in which case you can always send it to me for firewood

Nah, if it's wet it'll just fill your lounge room up with smoke

Cheers, I'll give it a go and see what happens.

[Rocker]

I suggest you read Neil's post in the thread Shellac Question. It looks as though the metholated spirit you used for thinning contained water, which is apparently common. you need to get hold of water-free metho.

[silentC]

Rocker,

I skimmed through that post last week but must've missed the point as it was all getting a bit technical. Yes, I see that he has pretty much answered the question of where the water has come from. The problem is how to make sure the metho I buy has low water content. The bottle I've got is Bi-Lo so it's probably at the upper end of the scale in water content. If I asked at the local Mitre 10 they'd probably just give me a funny look....

Metho 'aint metho...

[Cliff Rogers]

Hang on.....

you said...
"My first thought was the metho but I tried a bit straight from the bottle and got the same result."

then you said....
"...used the same stuff on some hardwood .... spinning on the lathe and it came up fine. "

I thought we had ruled out the metho???? :confused:

That reminds me, I need a drink.

[silentC]

Ahh, yes but what I forgot to mention was that I had wiped the timber down with a rag moistened with metho earlier. If there was water in it, I suppose it could still have been left behind after the metho evaporated.

The thing on the lathe I never touched with the metho at all.

[Cliff Rogers]

arrrHUH!!! The old wet metho on a dry piece of timber trick....
That's the second time this week.

Why didn't I think of that???

The metho should make that buggered timber burn well now,
I guess you can send it to me for firewood after all.

[ubeaut]

For starters I am pretty sure that western red doesn't burn but just smokes.

Moisture is pretty fair bet to be the problem. Your timber could have been kiln dried to 8% moisture and left in the conditions you describe for a couple of days would probably be up around 20% pretty quick smart. Timber is like a sponge in that it will soak up as much water as it can get whenever given the chance.

Your Metho will compound the problem as it also likes water and will soak it up into the shellac.

And finally your shellac may not be as fresh as it could be, it is possible it was on the shelf for 6 months or more before you purchased it. Premixed, it has a shelf life of around 12 months from most manufacturers. You are always best to buy brown shellac in flake form and mix it yourself. The fresher it is the better it works. If you must buy it premixed purchase it from someone who you know makes it or has a really high turnover of the product. Look for a best by or use by date on the bottle. I bet you don't find one.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers - Neil

PS U-Beaut's French Polish has a shelf life of 18 mths because it is made using pure alcohol instead of the watered down stuff that most other manufacturers use. Oh yes and we aren't afraid to put the use by date on our bottles.

[Cliff Rogers]

Originally posted by ubeaut
For starters I am pretty sure that western red doesn't burn but just smokes.

Ahh well there you go SilentC...
(I still can't think of a good name that has a silent C in it. )
Your timber's completely buggered, it's not even any good for firewood.
I've got some good machines for shredding it up into garden food so you better send it all up to me.

[silentC]

Thanks Neil, I know you've got the good stuff but I needed it today and I don't have an account with U-Beaut like I do at the local Mitre 10

Cliff, silentC is a nickname given to me by a mate and I'm not telling you what the C is silent in

[craigb]

I used to work with a bloke called Rick.
His nickname was "silent P"

[silentC]

Yeah, we had one of them at uni. He was too...