Modifying 100yo Framing

[Nifty1]

I have a hundred year old fisherman's cottage that I want to conserve (as opposed to renovate, but there will be some of that). The stud wall framing is in redgum, about 3x2 inch, and totally without noggings. The internal walls have half-inch weatherboards spaced reasonably close together low down, but widely spaced higher up, and the exterior is traditionally lapped weatherboards. Interior linings were paper-covered hessian. I understand that the internal weatherboards perform the same role as noggings.

I want to remove the internal weatherboards and figure I'll need to add noggings to provide the resistance to racking currently provided by the weatherboards (it's to make it easier to insulate the walls and to plaster them, and I'm hoping to reuse some of the internal weatherboards to replace the worst ones outside).

Any comments or warnings about frame stability in doing this?

(I love the way some of the studs have been mortised into the floor and wall plates).

[ian]

For starters with that much change to the structure your not conserving it, you're rebuilding it

from your description, the weatherboards are also providing the diagonal bracing
I think I'd replace them with wind bracing ply and gyprock over that

[Nifty1]

Thanks, that's a good idea. Regarding rebuilding/conserving, I suppose it's all relative. The house down the road was similar, but now has aluminium windows, a concrete floor (poured in through the windows), and some sort of hardiplank cladding. I'm going to have to restump anyway, and replace borer-ridden floors, but I'm thinking to keep the exterior looking well-aged - that sort of conservation.

[Dirty Doogie]

I second Ian's suggestion about using bracing ply internally. I would go for a 9 or 12 mm thick ply and use a nail gun to put it on. the old studs are going to be as hard as steel to nail into.

You may have to make a nogging bottom plate to fix the lower edge of the ply and other wall coverings.

It sounds like a big job though but I congratulate you on deciding to keep the external character of the cottage.

Doog

[seriph1]

Hi and welcome to the forum - yours is the kind of job I love! Please let us know where you are .... sounds like an inner northern or western area to me. but could be anywhere. Those mortised studs are great aren't they? Our place has dovetailed ones .... funky. there are so many options you have .... I would be pleased to have a chat about your plans and so forth - I may have a few ideas that can help.

Re: the removal of the internal boards .... is this for aesthetics? If only to insulate, you could always replace them afterwards. Personally, I am all for maintaining the period spirit of a place - I just don't like cess pits, so flushing loos, hot and cold running water and plenty of sympathetically placed technology is the go for me.....

have fun!

[seriph1]

By the way - those borer-ridden floors may be worth keeping - will know more, well - when I know more

[Nifty1]

Thanks for your interest Steve. The house is on the Gippsland Lakes and has been partially buggerised by previous owners. Only 4 rooms, built in 3 stages by the look of it, plus the later addition of a lean-to across the back for bathroom and laundry. The internal weatherboards are the same as the exterior ones, and I may be able to use some of them to replace rotted or split exterior boards. The incentive to remove them from the interior is to give me room to put some batts in the walls, as well as to make it easier to straighten the studs prior to putting up gyproc, but an old hand told me that they performed the same function as noggings in more modern construction. You can see the logic of this. I've got a restumping job that has to be done anyway, as some of the existing stumps are sections of tree stump a foot in diameter, but just sitting on the ground, and no longer connected to the bearers in any way. I'm interested in how to save borer-affected timbers. So far I've managed to bang my foot right through the floor in every room, so these boards are beyond saving. I might add, most people I have spoken to about this project recommend starting with a bulldozer and working from there....

[ian]

The house is on the Gippsland Lakes and has been partially buggerised by previous owners.
snip
I might add, most people I have spoken to about this project recommend starting with a bulldozer and working from there....

Nifty,
it's hard to disagree with this assessment

Ask yourself just what you are trying to achieve
you've already admitted that your rebuilding rather than conserving the house

what is most important to you?
if it's the size and layout of the house and/or the external look of the original

I'd suggest you recover as many of the weatherboards as you can and use them on a new building


ian

[TermiMonster]

That's pretty harsh Ian....I take it you have seen the house and so are speaking from actual on the ground knowledge?
TM

[ian]

That's pretty harsh Ian....

Termi, it's my streak of realism ...

Nifty1 has admited

• that the house needs a huge amount of work
• that, in his opinion, previous owners have "partially buggerised" the building
• that he is rebuilding and changing, rather than conserving, the original construction — wall insulation, gyprock walls, which means new skirtings, new cornices and almost certainly new architraves, door and window frames — this will destroy any historic value the house may have, apart from its overall size and external look — which he will only retain if he can recycle enough of the internal weather boards to the external cladding.
• that the house needs restumping
• that he has put his foot through the floor boards in every room
• that he is concerned with the extent of borer damage to the building timbers

So Nifty1 is looking at an almost total rebuild of his "shack" retaining only the frame and some of the external weather boards from the existing structure.

the only thing we don't know is what attracted Nifty1 to the property.
was it the look of the "shack", its size, its location

considering that, in broad terms, the cost per square metre for additions/renovations is about twice the cost of new construction and that the look and size of the original can readily be recreated — what would you advise?



ian

[seriph1]

would love to see some pictures please

BTW I can put my foot through the panels of our 120 year old doors as well as some of the floorboards here .... I just haven't done it - - borer ridden boards very often no longer have any borer and can be used to make convincing period style furniture to compliment homes of that era, especially miner's cottages etc.

Still a big job, but a worthy one if you're committed (I was committed once, but I am OK now though)

Actually I did a drive around some parts of Kilmore today and found a sweet little Miner's Cottage I hadn't noticed .... will knock on their door next week and say Hi.... cool place.

This one's got my juices flowing!

[TermiMonster]

I would need to see the property before I would give any real advice.
But I will say, I have been in the building game for long enough (since early '80s) to know that just because a builder says bulldoze, doesn't mean anything. Any new house builder will say that. Any extension builder will say, retain the front and bulldoze the back, etc.
The need for a re block does not mean the rest of the house is beyond hope. And it sounds like it may have some historic value.
If it has been termite ridden, yes bulldoze, but some borer or rot in the floors is not a death sentence.
The arcs and skirts, etc may be still good, I haven't seen them but Nifty has. I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying you are going to an extreme. It may be a worthwhile and rewarding thing to renovate.....surely better that most of the bv boxes going up everwhere.....at least it would have some character.
Who knows....surely not me
TM

[PlasterPro]

sounds like a gr8 little project...
btw when you guys talk about borers, is that the same as termites?

[ian]

Termi
as I said, it's was my streak of realism coming to the fore.


ian