Can anyone give me advice about soundproofting and plasterboard ceilings?

[deuce42]

Hi – can anyone advise me about sound-proofing, or at least removing the amount of noise exiting a bedroom of a unit?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
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I apologise for my long winded question belowJ <o></o>
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I am trying to create a home studio in the bedroom of a groundfloor unit. My neighbours living above seem to complain about the noise when I sing and play guitar (nothing to do with the talent I swear sir!!!). <o></o>
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The ceiling is concrete with a thick layer of cottage cheese looking vermiculite. I understand vermiculite was used because it was a sound proofer for units.

I am now getting a gyprocker to put a false gyprock ceiling in the unit to cover the ugly vermiculite. The gyprocker said that for the bedroom I am converting into a studio, he could use CSR Soundcheck gyprock and put some insulation between the vermiculite ceiling and the new layer of soundcheck gyprock. My concern is to do this will lower the ceiling quite a lot and the cost of the soundcheck gyprock and insulation adds a fortune of money to the bill. <o></o>
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So my question becomes, - given that the vermiculite is already a soundproofer, - if I opt for the expense and lower ceiling height by using the soundcheck and insulation over the vermiculite, will it make that much of a difference or is it just a waste of money? My thinking is that if I just have one ordinary 10mm sheet of gyprock placed over the vermiculite ceiling (like he is doing with the rest of the unit) I am therefore creating a piece of plasterboard and about 2 centimetres of air on top of the existing vermiculite ceiling, and perhaps this would be enough soundproofing? Would the soundcheck and insulation make that much difference to the problem of noise escaping?<o></o>
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Just to confuse matters, I have air vents in the walls of the room. Presumably the neighbour upstairs does as well. It seems to me then that there is sound escaping out of the vents and entering his unit. Am I right in thinking that covering the vents would make more difference than the expense of the special soundcheck gyprock and insulation? <o></o>
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Any thoughts or other ideas I could do to make sure the neighbours don’t complain about noise?<o></o>
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Thanks very much.<o></o>

[journeyman Mick]

Deuce,
welcome to the madhouse.
Tip 1: don't cut and paste from word, otherwise you get all those silly ">>" everywhere.
Tip 2: If you use the search function (up the page in the brown horizontal bar) and search for sound proofing or home recording studios you should turn up a lot of useful information.

Mick

[Bleedin Thumb]

Duece, vermiculite is a poor insulator, spend the money on the Soundcheck Gyprock and insulation. I can't comment on the air vent.

Also worth noteing that your neighbours may still complain as some people are just like that.

[Pulse]

Deuce, a 2cm air gap is not easily done.

1. Measure the room height 2400mm minimum, any extra is what you have to play with.

2. sound can "flank" the ceiling so pay attention to the air vents. They need to be covered.

3. The weight of the ceiling improves the soundproofing. Stick to soundcheck. See the CSR gyprock manual as it has drawings of differnet installation options with the associated sound reduction.

4. The plasterboard will be fixed to Rondo channels, probably P/N 129, this needs to be fixed to the ceiling with clips. The sound isolation mounts are the best clips but cost a few bucks each. The channels and clips will lead to about a 5cm loss of room height. Good chance for some flash shadowline cornice.

5. Use rockwool insulation and not polyester or fibreglass. It is heavier and has better soundproofing

Cheers
Pulse

[Phils]

Concrete is massive so it takes a lot of airborne energy to make it vibrate and transmit sound. Soundchek is denser than standard plasterboard to add to the density but compared to concrete its not terribly likely to add a whole lot. But if you are doing a ceiling anyhow suspend it on channels on flexible mounts and wack in the sound rated fibre insulation, not the stuff for heat.

Vermiculite covered the poor quality off -form concrete and stops the reflected noise back into the room by being an uneven surface

The vents need to be blocked to stop any sound leakage.

I'm wondering if there is a problem with speakers mounted on walls, you should flexible mount these somehow, same if they sit on the floor. This is the first easy step and most likely much of the problem, lots of the problem is probably due to direct contact sound transmission, so do some isolating.

Windows are most likely a big problem and I wonder if the neighbour doesn't close his while everybody else does? Look at sound rated windows or sometimes a secondary window can be fitted on the inside.

I'm making a whole lot of assumptions here, you say its an office? But it is a residential building isn't it? I'm assuming solid walls and fire rated doors between you?

there isn't a pipe and duct from the unit above that has not been 'stopped' properly is there?

next step would be to create a totally isolated room sitting on flexible mounts or turn the sound down, use headphones or move into a house. It is a unit after all!

[journeyman Mick]

Deuce,
a quick search on "recording studio" using ther search function at the top of the page returned this. Go forth and read it.

Mick

[soundman]

I think that you are barking up the wron tree if you think treating your cieling alone will do a scrap of good..... the existing is a slab of concrete. Sound goes thru lots of other things much easier than concrete.

If you want to get any sort of meaningfull isolation you will need to install some sort of fully floating room within a room.
You will need to breathe air.... therefore you will need to have some sort of "treated air path" so that the sound wont get out the holes your air is comming & going by.

BTW the sound check stuff is a waste of time for this sort of purpose.

This is a harder thing to do than most people think.
I would be most surprised if you could find a plasterboard fixer that understood the first thing about acoustic isolation.

Biting midge built a booth for his son inlaw & seems to hav got good sucess.

If you decide to build a booth, make sure it can be easily dismantled and moved.
With people getting less tolerant of noise you'd be surprised how common this sort of thing is getting.

cheers

[stewbog]

I agree that an isolated booth within the room is the best solution, but possibly not very practical. Also it is hard to get reasonable air movement without degrading sound rating of the booth. Look at Cross-talk attenuators on www.fantach.com.au for an indication the sot of thing you would need for airflow. I would still be reluctant to spend any period of time in this sort of room without forced ventilation.


The vermiculite helps to dampen the sound slightly within the room, but will do very little to stop noise transmission.

I would try sealing the vents as an initial step. You can also try to further dampen the room but this will also make the room "dead" from an acoustic perspective. If this isnt an issue fix a reasonable area of insulation (ie the better part of one wall) to a wall in a timber frame and cover with an open weave fabric.

Put a speaker in the room and walk around outside to see how much noise is audible 4-5m from the window. This noise will need a surface such as another unit or a high fence to be reflected back into the upper level, but this would be the norm in the city. If the noise is significant you can fit a window behind the existing, but make sure you keep an airgap of at least 50mm and preferably 100mm between the panes. Also ensure that there are good seals on the windows.

Otherwise, if you decide to treat the ceiling, you will not get any real improvement unless you use a 100mm airgap between the slab and the plasterboard and you must use good acoustic insulation.
Soundchek plasterboard is OK but a better option is the 13mm plasterboard (fyrechek?). This is heavier and better value.
Use the high density acoustic insulation should be a minimum 75mm thick (prefer 100mm) and min 32kg/m3 density fibreglass (prefer 64kg/m3).
Isolating the mounting of the plasterboard will help but not by a great deal. If the cost is is high I wouldnt bother.

[soundman]

The room within a room is more practical than you would think, I have seen several of various sofistication (some very crude) but all of reasonable effectiveness.
yess you do need some forced air ventilation.
Forget the crosstalk attenuators from the fan companies, they will be too expensive and will not achieve enough attenuation.
Building a damped torturous path of decent cross section does work and is reasonable to construct as part of 1 wall.
you can build the in & out as one assembly you need to seperate the inlets and outlets though.
one of these days I plan to publish an achievebal design.

cheers