What Materials Are These Please?

[Metal Head]

Hi,

We are having our kitchen revamped in the coming weeks. Today saw the start with the internal covering being pulled off the walls (plus many other tasks).

It revealed this material (the one on the left with the studs in it) having been used. Does anyone recognise what it is exactly - the house was built in 1954 so it may be one of the original sheets.

Secondly, can anyone tell by looking at the image attached if it is asbestos for sure. Does anyone have any idea how much it cost to have removed by the square metre?.

Thanking those in advance for their replies.

Cheers
David

[doug1]

Looks like fiberous plaster but cant be sure from those photos

Doug

[echnidna]

Ist one's fibrous plaster.

Can't tell from a pic if theres astbestos in the cement sheet but it probably does have, as its in the era when astbestos was used.

[Article99]

The first one's alright, I think, but I've seen the stuff in the second picture before...
For the love of christ, don't break it up. It ain't good for your health.

[rod@plasterbrok]

2nd is asbestos sheet for sure.

[OBBob]

To get asbestos removed you really need to get a few quotes. Its one of those things that seems to range in price in a big way! It depends on how much of it there is too.

I imgaine you don't want to remove it yourself ... especially if it is inside and you are living there. However there are government / EPA guidelines on how to do it on the web (maybe just for interest)? There is only one waste disposal yard that will accept it close to melbourne (Altona) and it is about 75c/kg to drop it off but it must be double wrapped and labelled. Otherwise you can hire a special skip ... but they are baout 3 times teh price of a non-asbestos skip of the same size. Anything asbestos related is like anything baby related ... puit on those words and the price skyrockets.

The other option is that you could just leave it and cover it again? It shouldn't be any harm if you don't disturb it.

Hope this helps.

[Cabbie]

Yeh the first one is this old fibre plasterboard stuff that was quite common back in those days and the second definately looks to me as asbestos. From memory you have to get the right people in to remove it as I am sure it is illegal to remove it yourself now, although it could be different for different states. I don't know anything about the prices of removal all I know is it isn't cheap but there should be a few people who specialise in the removal of asbestos.

[OBBob]

You are allowed to remove it in Victoria, although there are restriction son the quantity if you are a builder etc. You do need to get a certificate of disposal, which states that it was disposed of correctly etc.

[Honorary Bloke]

Asbestos for sure, mate. I recognize the culprit. Best bet is to leave it and seal it if you can. If it must be removed, check your local regulations for proper removal and disposal procedures, as it can cause big problems.

DIY removal here is a big NO NO.

[pawnhead]

Personally, I think that all the hype surrounding asbestos is being a bit overblown.

AFAIK almost all of the cases of asbestos related diseases come from either working in the factories making the stuff five days a week, breathing it in, shipbuilders spraying the stuff as insulation, or being exposed to an environment where blue (most dangerous) asbestos has been used as a loose fibrous insulation that blows around the place, or by repeated cutting of the old super six roof sheets that contained blue asbestos.

AFAIK the old fibro contains white asbestos that isn't considered as dangerous. When I started in the industry it was common practice for chippies to be standing in a poorly ventilated bathroom, cutting compressed AC floor sheets with no protective gear at all, breathing in clouds of dust. I don't know how many can trace diseases back to that as a cause, but I know that the vast majority of complaints are coming from James Hardies employees, with a much lesser number coming from people who have worked in an asbestos insulated atmosphere for extended periods. Of course if you find loose fibrous blue asbestos insulation in any walls or ceilings, then get out of the place and call the experts, but a bit of fibro on the walls wouldn't worry me at all.

Breathing high levels of asbestos fibers for a long time can lead to an increased risk of asbestosis, lung cancer, and mesothelioma. Asbestosis is a noncancerous lung disease related to scarring of the lungs. This disease occurs in people heavily exposed to asbestos in the workplace and in household contacts of asbestos workers.
< snip >
Particle shape, particle solubility, and duration of exposure are reported to be the three most important factors that determine lung damage. Many researchers believe that amphibole asbestos particles pose a greater risk than chrysotile particles because they are less soluble and more rigid than chrysotile, allowing the amphibole asbestos particles to penetrate lung tissue and remain longer.
http://www.umt.edu/Libbyhealth/myths...s_asbestos.htm

Some of the more common uses of chrysotile include:

* asbestos cement sheeting, pipes and electrical meter panels
http://www.workcover.nsw.gov.au/FAQs...sbestos_q1.htm

How much asbestos is in a product does not indicate its health risk. If the asbestos fibres are enclosed or tightly bound in a compound, there is no significant health risk. One of the main problems with asbestos came from sprayed or "friable" (easily broken up) amphibole asbestos used in buildings until the 1970s. People working in construction, maintenance or in the renovation of older buildings should be particularly careful when handling this asbestos.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/iyh-vsv/envir...amiante_e.html

I'd get a dust mask, or a decent respirator from the hardware (or I'd probably just breathe through my T-shirt), and bust it up with a hammer. You're not going to cause much dust that way. Then dig a hole in your yard and bury it, or just chuck it under the house in a corner somewhere. Another alternative, if you're re-lining a wall, is to throw the bottom sheet on, then fill the wall up between the studs with all the bits of busted up fibro. Good insulation.

A hell of a lot more people would die from dihydrogen monoxide related causes. All this unnecessary paranoia is pushing disposal costs through the roof, for mine.

spoiler: -Of course it could be a case of [Gasp,,,, Wheeze]"Take my advice. I'm not using it". [/Gasp,,,, Wheeze]

[OBBob]

An added point to that is that everyone recognises AC sheet, however there are many other products such as insulation and lino that people go ripping into without realising that they also can contain asbestos.

People seem happy to go and take all sorts of other risks such as climbing ladders, playing with electrics, DIY re-stumping ... all of which can kill you much quicker ... but mention the 'a' word!!!

This is a touchy subject for me because I was dobbed in to worksafe by a do-gooding passer by who saw it being removed at my place. They assumed that you couldn't do this yourself and dobbed me in even though I was following all the guidelines, was at the back o teh property well away from the road, fully sperm suited with resparator, not creating any dust, wetting down the stuff as it was manually removed ... double wrapped and properly disposed of.

Luckily worksafe wasn't available to do an inspection of the site (god knows what issues that could have raised) and I just had to do some explaining to the council inspector.


Anyway ... that aside, the coucil will tell you to avoid breaking it and just punch the nails through and remove as full sheets. Good luck with that ... pretty much impossible!

It's worth being careful ... get the guidelines ... it isn't too hard to comply.

[silentC]

AFAIK almost all of the cases of asbestos related diseases ...

I personally know two people, one an architect and one an electrician who have only come into contact with asbestos through work in the house building industry and who have been diagnosed with asbestos related illness.

The architect died from it about 3 years ago. The sparky was only diagnosed this time last year, not sure what his prognosis is.

[journeyman Mick]

I know of at least one chippie who died of asbestosis and his only exposure would have been to AC sheeting. His brother, who was his business partner and had the same exposure and very similar genetic make up is still kicking on, many years later. You just can't tell.

Mick

[Cabbie]

I'd get a dust mask, or a decent respirator from the hardware (or I'd probably just breathe through my T-shirt), and bust it up with a hammer. You're not going to cause much dust that way. Then dig a hole in your yard and bury it, or just chuck it under the house in a corner somewhere. Another alternative, if you're re-lining a wall, is to throw the bottom sheet on, then fill the wall up between the studs with all the bits of busted up fibro. Good insulation.

A hell of a lot more people would die from dihydrogen monoxide related causes. All this unnecessary paranoia is pushing disposal costs through the roof, for mine.

spoiler: -Of course it could be a case of [Gasp,,,, Wheeze]"Take my advice. I'm not using it". [/Gasp,,,, Wheeze]

Good way to go about getting a huge ass fine. It isn't really something to take lightly. The stuff is quite hazardous and if you don't take the right precautions then you may have to wind up sufering the consequences whether that be a fine or an illness. As the saying goes it's better to be safe than sorry. I think the amount of ppl with asbestosis and mesothilioma speaks for itself to show how bad te stuff really is. I don't think it is a big beat up at all.

[OBBob]

Well the topic was bound to spark interest ... its like when soemone says they want to do their own wiring ... the switchboard lights up!!

I guess the answer to the original question is the one on the right is bad ... if it can't stay where it is read the guidlines, which are quite clear on your options.