Tips for dIY downlights

[Mr Crow Bar]

any tips sparkies and diyers on putting in your own downlights? well i know some of you might be gasping at the concept of dIY electrical work and all the do gooders out there will be turning in their graves. but i am doing them myself regardless and if you can tune in and offer any good advice, safety, tecghnical of otherwise please write in.

i have bought a ten pack from bunnings with transformers. second floor apartment building with lowbearing roof over plasterboard. (no room to fit under the roof to fit from the top.) i hear it is real easy from many diy friends but remain to be convinced i can really do this one.

sincerely,:eek:
reformed do-gooder

[pharmaboy2]

gee, that sounds easy - not!

Obviously transformers need to be able to go through hols, transoformers need to be on top of ceiling joist as well, and away from insulation. Also given that sort of installation, I'd want transformers that are electronic and run very cool.

Now I'm not suitably qualified, but if you only have access from underneath, I'd go for GU-10 fittings, which are halogen but 240volt, and without transformer, because installing to standards is nigh on impossible without ceiling access. keep in mind halogens get very hot at the back of the light - the gu-10 fittings as well, and cannot have insulation over them.

Its a big 'careful' for fire risk.

[Mr Crow Bar]

thanks for the reply, i am aware of the fire risks. thanks for the tips i will look into them. any other tips on fitting anyone? eg how to thread the cable without roof access?????

[Chesand]

I would suggest that with the tone of your request you will be very lucky to get too much advice let alone from sparkies

[Vernonv]

I'm no sparkie and I'm not sure if this is the "right" way to do it, but ...

1. Can you pull off the roof sheeting/tiles? If so put the transformers in the eaves. There shouldn't be any insulation in there.

2. When I ran network cable in our house I used an old broken tape measure (just the flexible steel bit) to run the cables. i.e. tape the cable to one end of the tape measure and feed the other end to where you want it. I've also seen the same thing done with a strip of yellow tongue.

Hope that helps.

[spartan]

I'm finding it difficult to imagine how this would work if you have no ceiling access....Unless you can pop roof tiles or roof sheets??

I'm assuming that you have a light in the ceiling already and that this is the points from where you will draw your power from...

Have you thought about how you will get power to all 10 of your lights?? Thats a bit of cable and drilling 70mm holes and then using extension rods sounds problematic.

You need a minimum of 150mm clearance from your lights to your insulation.....

You might want to consider 240v and 11w compact fluro halogen replacements...they operate significantly cooler than 50w dios....

Quoting jobs like this is difficult even if you are on site....if you have no ceiling access...I'd probably say no can do...unless you want to calling the plaster after the electrical work is done....

As an alternative you can buy (from bunnings and other places) DIY kits that attach to standard bayonet fittings, that offer a halogen option without being down lights...

Having said that I've seen people install false ceilings to overcome this kind of obstacle....but that was mainly for hiding aircon cabling in apartments.....

Whatever you decide to do stay safe......

[OBBob]

Don't know what you'd do if there are obsticles ... but an old strip of the plastic yellow tongue from chipboard flooring is great for pulling wires through walls. Has no conductivity and just the right amount of fleximibility. Tape teh cable to it to pull it through, then tie a knot inb the cable once through ... it's very annoying when you get it through finally and then it slips back in the hole!!

[ausdesign]

From an energy raters point of view I have an aversion to recessed ceiling downlights. [more so 240v]
And seeing it's a friday, I'd say if you're thinking of installing them in a 'cathedral ceiling' type situation then insulation wise you're committing a reprehesible sin & should go directly to Bunnings for an immediate refund !! - don't stop at Go.

As an aside - currently new homes are required to achieve a level of energy compliance under BCA 2006.
For example in Vic plans to council require a stamped set of plans from the energy rater plus a compliance form signed by the owner or builder stating that nothing has been altered [from the rating ]
I can envisage in the future that homes 'sold on' will require a form, stat. dec. or whatever that the home has not been altered or if it has then it will conform [new certificate]

[jimc]

Be aware that a 50 watt low voltage globe uses the same amount of grunt as a 50 watt 240V globe.
Add to that the transformer being only 80% efficient means you will use more power than the 240V lamps and less of a fire risk.

The added plus of the 240V fittings is compact florescent globes are made as replacements in 5 9 and 11watt fittings.

Only my two bobs worth.

[spartan]

jimc....

correct....in the case of downlights....low voltage 50W actually use about 61 watts when you take into account the transformer....

that's why I'm mainly doing 240v, 11 Watt compact fluro replacements at moment. You save 50w per light, and the heat is significantly less.

There two downsides...cost of the globe about$19-$25, and the fact it takes about a minute to get to full brightness.....small sacrifices for the environment...

[doug1]

Cost of cfl lamps is about $4 or $5 in dydney depending where you go (Go Lo)

power factor about .5

Doug

[Mr Crow Bar]

thanks all for your imput. geez this place is great... lots of replies here. already have bought the downlights as mentioned gu1 240v 50w jobbies without transformers ($100 for a ten pack with globes inc) and some low voltage ones for the kitchen in a stanless steel finish. so unless i get refunds these are what i will use. but appreciate the feedback for it is all food for thought..


i need some of the nitty gritty.. grassroots stuff guyss.. wiring??? how to wire these ***ers safely and secondly get it through my narrow roof space. Has any one attempted this? Some people have suggested threading it through with plastic packing wrap or something. what type of wiring should i use?

and last token question. when i have successfully installed the best down lights in town, what is the best way to fill the hole in the ceiling from the original fitting???

Mr Crow

[spartan]

Cost of cfl lamps is about $4 or $5 in dydney depending where you go (Go Lo)

power factor about .5

Doug

If you can find cfl for gu10 fittings for this price snap them up, with a trade discount of 20% the best I can get is $19.

I suspect though you are referring to the standard cfl incan replacement which you should be able to get get for about $5. Big difference between these and megaman gu10 cfl.

[thatirwinfella]

let me guess this right... you've pretty much admitted you have no domestic wiring experience, aren't sure of you're capable of completing the job, don't care about the legalities of what you are doing, and you don't seem to have thought the situation through before you started[bulky items and narrow roof spaces don't mix in my mind].

and now you're asking on an internet forum for DIYers to tell you what they think MIGHT be the proper way of installing them.

i'll put it straight out there... you're a nut.

the hole in the plaster ceiling... this might be a bit out there, but i've always thought plaster holes are best filled in with plaster. conveniently enough for you, the reno brothers in todays herald sun was filling in a plaster hole. well, it might be convenient if you get the herald sun.

the easy way would be to just replace the fittings with the style everyone else is suggesting. It saves installing new cables and you won't have to fill in any holes. for the cost of the cable and the downlights [and the comparitive effort] you could probably buy a few pretty decent fittings instead.

downlights have had their fun anyway, go see whats coming into fashion and get it before all your mates do.

by far though, the easiest way would be getting an electrician to do it.

[Mr Crow Bar]

ha, you are a very funny man. well thanks for stating the bleeding obvious 'win fella' (the name says it all) i covered that in my first posting so we wouldn't have to go through it all again... did you read it?

if you are not going to be any help find another thread to bother. or add something constructive.

p.s.
1.) why we are here? so we dont have to hire people to do things for us.

2.) as i said i have already bought the fittings.

3.) putting plaster in a plaster hole.. why didnt i think of that..."the best way?" it states in the question.

god damn it. anyone in here know how to wire them properly or not? fill a gravitationally challenged hole? and pass wire from one hole to the other?

or

add some sarcastic remarks if it's easier.


to everyone else that put in there two bobs worth. thanks.


crow mag man:confused::mad: