Bricks steps

[Theremin]

I need to build some brick steps at the back of our house. The first picture shows the back of the house (although the painting is finished now, thank god!) The steps need to go the full width of the bi-fold doors (3m). They will lead down to a paved area which will be about the width between the 2 posts and out about 5-6m. The steps will need to have 3 rises of 170-180mm each.

I am planning on using standard bricks, and 400x400x40mm pavers (cut to 400x300mm) for the treads. The second picture shows a top-down view of the first course of bricks, and a middle cross-section. I am planning on supporting the backs of the pavers using a row of bricks running at 90 degrees. The backs of the top pavers are supported by some angle bolted to the house.

Here are my questions:

1. Is it ok to support the backs of the pavers the way I am planning, or should I run extra separate courses of bricks?

2. Can you see any problems using angle to support the back of the top row of pavers? What would be best to attach the pavers to the angle (some sort of liquid nails)? What size angle should I use - 40-50mm?

3. The rises should work out to be 172mm (assuming 76mm bricks, 40mm pavers and 10mm mortar gaps). Is a tread of 300mm going to be too wide? I think 250mm is more the standard.

4. I have allowed for a 20mm overhang on the sides and front of the treads. Is this about right?

5. I was planning on 200x200mm footings. However, given how close the courses of bricks are, I think it will end up being a 3200x800x200mm slab (about 0.5m3 of concrete). Is a 200mm deep footing ok? Do I need to use steel reinforcing?

6. What have I not thought of???

[Barry_White]

6. What have I not thought of???

Sorry can't help with the bricks but what about a ramp to get the car out of the roller door.

[Theremin]

Good point! Except this is the back of the house. There is an automatic roller door at the front of the house which opens onto the driveway. The only reason I put that garage door at the back was so that, if we ever needed to, we could get machinery (eg bobcat, mini-excavator) into the backyard, because there isn't enough room down the sides of the house. They can supply their own ramps or I can make up some temporary ones. Also, we already had the door and it saved to cost of having it blocked in when the house was raised. And before anyone says - "there is not enough height to get machinery through that door" - the door comes off with 6 screws and the panel above the door is on hinges. (It's a tilt-a-door, not a roller door).

[Trav]

Sorry can't help with the bricks but what about a ramp to get the car out of the roller door.

if you were feeling crazy, you could have a bit of dukes of hazzard action off the edge there...

[Trav]

Not that I know squat all about paving or concrete, but why did you go witha single column of bricks to hold up the steps. Wouldn't you be better off building a solid set?

If you build it the way you hvae suggested, you will forever be getting stuff (like snakes :eek: ) under the steps.

Trav

[Theremin]

Trav - the diagram showed a middle cross-section. The front and both ends would be solid brick, so nothing will get in there. Building it completely solid, with no gaps in the middle or anywhere, would mean using a lot more bricks most of which would neither be seen nor serve any purpose (other than to fill up the gaps).

[Trav]

Right - now I get it.

(crawling back under the rock I came from)

Trav

[elphingirl]

We are doing something very similar - also steps down from a wide bifold door 600mm above the ground level. We are going to clad in stone, but that's too expensive to waste where you can't see it! We poured a 150mm thick slab over the whole area (3000 x 1400) heavily reinforced. From there we built up the front and back of the step lines with Besser blocks and/or bricks to get the required size (allowing 50mm for stone cladding). We then filled all the gaps between the blocks (and in the blocks) with crushed rock, compacting regularly. We did this even in the landing area, which was a fair few wheelbarrow loads.

The whole thing feels very solid and only took a weekend's work to build up.

Cheers
Justine

[Deems36]

300mm treads is the norm infact 330 including an overhang-this was the norm when I was landscaping 7 years ago anyways.

I am also doing something similar and have progressed a little more than the attached photo. I opted to brick up the steps - fix battons to the top of the courses and then finsish with hardwood decking fixed to the batons.



Since this shot I have battoned the brick work and mitered 90x19 balau on the outside of the brickwork to cover the batons.

Will post more pics soon

[oldbones]

i'd be thinking of a wider landing at the top (eg 1m) if you've the space.
asthetics and maybe safety (folk trip and the extra step needed is not into space)
i'd not cantilever any of the pavers but have solid brickwork to the ground.
probably make the ends and middle double layer for lateral stability.
i'd also go with the idea below of filling in the void with compacted rubble (i'm sure you have the odd pile lying around, as we all do!)
i'd also think of the steps as a separate structure and avoid any mechanical connection to the house to allow for its natural movement/settlement versus the huge final weight of the steps. maybe an expansion joint /filler ?
maybe a 1% slope on the steps to avoid pooling.

[tomcat]

If your soil is at all reactive to moisture changes, you should avoid fixing it to the house with the angle.

Clay is not a strong material in tension. Hence I don't think that clay brick treads should be unsupported over the length that you have on your plan. I would be providing a solid support for the pavers. The weakest point in your treads as per your plan will develop at the support point, leading to a potential crack in a paver along that line. If you have a hole under the treads and one breaks when someone steps on it - look out!

Just my $0.2 worth.

[Theremin]

Thanks for the feedback, based on which I have decided not to cantilever the paver treads, or attach the steps to the house. I'll run extra courses of bricks instead. Hopefully I can pick up some cheap commons somewhere to keep the cost down, seeing as most of them will be hidden.

I don't have room for a landing at the top, unfortunately. Also, the steps will be undercover, so there's no risk of water pooling on them.

Anyway, here's a progress photo of the formwork for the slab. The round concrete thing appears to be a steel pipe filled with concrete which goes down a fair way and was proving difficult to get out, so I thought I might as well leave it there and just concrete over and round it.