Hard wax oil

[derekcohen]

Has anyone used hard wax oil to finish surfaces that need a durable finish? This seems to be gaining prominence in the recent year.

Bunnings sell a product by Kaboodle, which I know little about. Any experience, reviews?

I want a clear, waterproof finish for a coffee table, and this may be an option.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Fuzzie]

I've used paste wax over Danish oil on a couple of tables and it's been pretty bullet proof so far.

[djeddy]

Sorry, no personal experience. However, you made me curious so I looked around...

This page at the Natural Timber Oils website talks about the whys of hard wax oils using an Osmo document. I've been meaning to give the stuff a try even if it is super-exxy. I think you can mail-order Osmo (they have sample pots as well) if you don't trust the big green shed (the Kaboodle website seems to imply it's a house brand for Bunnings). Timbecon will sell you the Whittle stuff if you'd prefer that; it seems to be slightly cheaper than Osmo and it's sourced from Germany with their green mania if that's important to you (it is for me). Osmo itself can be obtained from VCS Floors in Perth (apparently their only Perth stockist).

[derekcohen]

Thanks for this. Australian Wood Review spoke well of the gloss: Whittle Evolution Hardwax Oil - Australian Wood Review

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Pete57]

Have not used myself but watched this video recently:
https://youtu.be/8sAu_yPm_Vg

[FenceFurniture]

Hi Derek

I picked up a couple of samples of Evolution (Matte and Satin) when we were at Wood Dust. I used it on some Ironbark and am very impressed. I can't vouch for its durability yet as it is too soon.

What I like about the Matte is that the Ironbark looks like raw timber with no finish (which is what I wanted). I used Uni-Pro mini rollers to apply it. I thought that I had purchased the Microfibre ones but it turned out they were Acrylic (11mm nap) and they were a disaster - dropped HUNDREDS of fibres on the job which had to be sanded out. Am yet to use Microfibre rollers. I've got a few 5mm Mohair ones to try.

I applied 3 coats after sanding to 500. Between first and second coat I sanded 500 again, after 2nd I sanded 800, and after the third coat I used 3000g. The matte finish has a sensational silky feel to it! I just rolled it on and left it and most of the orange peel finish levelled out. What was left was sanded back.

This board had already been coated with Osmo PolyW Raw (the white one). I didn't like the white effect on the Ironbark and so sanded it off and went with the Evolution.

Suffice to say that fletty and I are going halves in a litre of Evolution Matte. The Satin is also very nice. The gloss is more of a semi-gloss IMO.

You can purchase direct from Whittles and they also have the microfibre rollers.

HTH
Brett

EDIT: I don't know how exactly true this is, but rumour has it that the guy who developed Osmo got the irits and started out on his own to create Evolution. What I can tell you for an absolute fact is that they both have the same distinctive solvent smell - like fly spray .

WARNING 1: Do NOT wipe down the timber with metho or turps before applying the finish. If you do then the finish will craze and not set. Use White Spirits to wipe off any sanding dust.
WARNING 2: Do NOT wipe down the job with White Spirits between coats. If you do you will start to remove the first coat.

No need to ask me how I know that....you can probably guess.......

[derekcohen]

Thanks Brett. I plan to use the Satin - compared the finishes at Timbecon, and preferred this.

I also plan to rub it on with a microfibre cloth. That creates the thinnest possible coating. 2 or 3 coats will be sufficient, I imagine.

How long do you reckon it will be before it stops off-gassing? I need to pack it up send it off to Sydney in about a week.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[FenceFurniture]

I also plan to rub it on with a microfibre cloth. That creates the thinnest possible coating. 2 or 3 coats will be sufficient, I imagine.

Why do you want thin as possible? For fast drying? You should still wait 24 hours between coats (alright, 18 is quite ok). I really would stick with the roller. I tried brushing and then clothing. Nup. If it has to wait then it has to wait.

How long do you reckon it will be before it stops off-gassing?

Not too long. I don't recall much smell at all after a day or so. I brought it up to the house pretty much 24 hours after last coat and didn't notice anything (and I would).

[qwertyu]

My wood working experience is very limited but heres my 2c

I have used osmo polyx and whittle waxes evolution. They're essentially the same once its on and set I think. they both feel silky smooth.

I found that evolution wax is less viscous and found it harder to apply thinly with a roller. It doesnt effect the finish but it means you use more. I use "monarch' brand of 5mm nap microfibre rollers - no problems so far. I have also applied it with a brush and just with a rag. It all works this stuff is forgiving - im not very 'careful' when applying it. I have seen people dip the whole roller into the can and lay it on thick - they dont have problems too. using a rag applies it super thin - still feels great but Im sure it will be less durable.

evolution is slightly more yellow and osmo is slightly more amber.

osmo's can seems to seal better so the product seemed to last longer.

If you want the most durable finish I think osmo's 'top oil' has the highest wax content but it is very expensive. Osmo also makes 'wood protector' for high liquid areas which is applied prior to apply finish.

Both create a white powder when sanding which can be annoying when it gets into grain as its hard to get out. TBH no one notices it though except for the people who are making it - i dont think anyone cares.

Osmo's instructions say no sanding and whittle waxes (i asked their instagram account) says to sand with 320 after first coat only. I asked anton gerner on insta what he does he says he uses 600. I asked the whelan the warehouse team who would be pushing out 100s of furniture pieces a month and exclusively use osmo their technique and they say to use 800 after first coat and 1500 after second coat.

When I applied it in doors it stunk for like a week. When I applied it in the shed I was able to bring it in after a day and it wasnt too bad.

[FenceFurniture]

I found that evolution wax is less viscous and found it harder to apply thinly with a roller.

I dunno about this applying it thinly caper. I reckon put it on how it goes on via the recommended method (roller in this case) and basically follow the destructions. It worked well for me with the Evo, but bearing in mind that I was trying to make the 100ml sample pot go a long way - which it did. Best rough estimate is 25ml per coat per 0.5 m² (so ~20 m² per litre)

[tony_A]

I have a couple of sample pots of Evolution on the way and want to try it on some wood turning. How fine do you sand prior to application? The information sheet seems to be aimed at flooring and recommends sanding with 120 or finer. I would normally sand to at least 600, or if I am after a really good finish 1500.

Tony

[derekcohen]

Well, I finished the Fiddleback Jarrah and Jarrah coffee table today - literally: drawer completed, carcase sanded to 320/400 grit, and then rubbed on the Evolution Satin is the same way I did the water-based poly in my kitchen build. It is STUNNING! I am a convert!

My method used microfibre cloth and elbow grease, left for about 8 hours (it is dry heat in Perth), rubbed back with 400 grit grey mesh, and added a second rubbed coat. No sanding between coats. Easy peasy

This is a photo from my kitchen build ...



And a link to the description there: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...20Rebuild.html

I'll have photos up tomorrow. Look out for my build in the furniture forum.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[FenceFurniture]

I would normally sand to at least 600, or if I am after a really good finish 1500.

I would do that without hesitation.

[qwertyu]

When you applied it with a cloth, did you really rub it in?

The technique which is described with a non abrasive pad requires one to really rub it in, apparently stops the grain from raising giving a nicer finish. Ive never tried it

[derekcohen]

I rubbed it in - hard, in circles and with the grain. There was minimal (if any at all) grain raising. This may have been due to the wood being hard Jarrah.

No abrasive pads. No paint brush. No sanding between coats (the grey mesh - 400n grit - was used more from habit to denib anything). The surface was prepared before hand to 400 grit with my 20-year old Festo ROS.

I do not have a worthy photo yet.

Regards from Perth

Derek