The US Formula One **** Up

[Stuart]

The events at the F1GP in the USA was an absolute disgrace. However, I am fully on the side of the FIA and their decision to allow the race to carry on, without track modification. There were a number of alternate options that the Michelin teams could have taken, once Michelin had deemed their original tyres unsafe. However, through their own pigheadedness, and bad-sportsmanship, they made a digusing farce of the entire race.

They could have

1. Run turn 13 slower. The request for a chicane to make it "safer" for Michelin drivers is utter crap. A chicane would not make it safer. Slowing down for the corner would. The only reason for a chicane therefore, is to penalise the Bridgestone runners, so they have to go as slow as the Michelin teams. The Michelin teams could have chosen to take the corner to the limit of their cars' capabilities (ie the tyres) by going slower. So they would have lost ground to the Bridgestone cars. So no different a result to what actually happened, other than a real duel for places 7 onward, and a real race between the Michelin runners.

2. Use different tyres, accept the penalty for doing so, and try to resurrect the situation as best as possible. You might be able to pull something off. The Bridgestone cars may have technical or racing difficulties, and you'd still get legitimate placings.

3. Each fuel stop, change the affected tyre(s). No penalty (as tyres are faster to change than refuelling), and they would not have received an FIA imposed penalty, as the tyres would be changed for a safety reason, and is therefore legitimate.

But the Michelin teams chose not to do any of these. Instead, they chose to deny the fans & spectators any opportunity to enjoy the race.

Michelin will undoubtly get penalised, which is only fair. But, the decision not to take one of these options and therefore bringing the sport into disrepute rests firmly and squarely with the teams that chose not to race.




Whiting, (Race Director for the FIA) stated: “To change the course in order to help some of the teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tyres.”

The FIA also outlined a number of other options available to the Michelin teams, including running more slowly in Turn 13, running new tyres and incurring a penalty, or repeatedly changing tyres, subject to valid safety reasons.

With those options deemed unacceptable by Michelin and their teams, there followed the bizarre spectacle of 14 cars peeling into the Indianapolis pit lane to retire at the end of the formation lap. "



The Press Release from Michelin stated “It is regrettable that our pre-race suggestions, agreed in conjunction with our partner teams, were not adopted. Had our ideas been followed, we could have guaranteed driver safety, the participation of our teams and added interest for the public."

[Groggy]

The Press Release from Michelin stated “It is regrettable that our pre-race suggestions, agreed in conjunction with our partner teams, were not adopted. Had our ideas been followed, we could have guaranteed driver safety, the participation of our teams and added interest for the public."

What an absolute piece of crud. If they put chicanes all over the course I could race in my ute - with bald tyres!
IAW Stuart.

[Studley 2436]

The only thing I remember even slightly like this was in Adelaide in 86 when Prost won Mansell blew up a tire at the end of the Main Stright and Rossberg too lost a tire putting him out of the race although he thought it was an engine blow up when it was more of a flat that he might have got back to the pits.

After Mansell's tire failure the whole field pitted so the Goodyears that Day most likely weren't up to the job. Prost was the only main one that planned to pit, that day.

My point being the current rules are pretty bad. Simply why can't they stop for tires? Mind you I disagree with being able to stop for fuel. It is too dangerous. Not pitting for fuel means also bigger fuel tanks and so the cars will have less aerodynamic efficiency which has some advantages. Anyway the whole idea of limits on the number of engines and not being able to change tires goes against racing and achieves nothing worthwhile.

Had they been allowed to change tires as they always used to be then there would be no issue with tires blowing out.

The whole thing was a terrible farce and race fans everywhere can only hope that it is sorted out so we get to see some proper racing and passing. Of course we have always dreamed of that *G*

Stevo

[Stuart]

What an absolute piece of crud. If they put chicanes all over the course I could race in my ute - with bald tyres!
IAW Stuart.

Reminds me of the Australian F1 a few years ago. I worked the F1 for a number of years, so had vehicle access after the circuit was closed to the general public. I knew the circuit very well from years of simulation computer games (playstation etc), so charged off around the circuit in my '77 mercedes (the same one that I sold to build my workshop). It had pretty bald tyres come to think of it.

Taking turns 13 & 14, I was used to skinning the corner close in the sims, so took the same line in the merc. Course, they remove the row of 4x4 posts with chain interlinking them in time for the race, but hadn't done so before I had my impromptu run!

I didn't collect them, but I must have gotten the merc close to being on 2 wheels to avoid them!


Back to the F1 current rules:

Can't say I mind fuelling - the occasional fireball in the pits is pretty spectacular. Also means the races last a lot longer. The F1 is short enough as it is (bring on the equivalent of Bathurst!) (Or Le Mans 24 hour!)

Tyre changing is part of racing - this current status is wrong (as is the new Super V8 situation).

I agree with Stevo- the current rules are really detracting from the event. Lets get back to tyre changes, choosing fuel loads for the race itself, and not for qualifying, SLICKS, team orders (not that they are not used at the moment, just behind closed doors) etc etc.

[Lucas]

Stuart
do you relise that 9 of the teams wanted to sign off on the chicane
the chicane was to be placed between corner 12 and 13
seeing corner 13 was the one doing the damage then this would have solved the problem with the Michelin tyres
and then the team running Michelin tyres then suggested that they run with no points being awarded to them so as to put on a show


Looks to me like Jordan and Ferrari were just looking for some easy points
thats all i have to say on the matter

F1 is suppose to be the elite level of racing
but to me it just starting to look like who has the most money wins

[pau1]

Saftey is obviously the first concern of the teams. If a Team boss sent his drivers out to race knowing that there could be a problem and then there was an accident! Can you imagine the fallout. They have only just recently put the Senna case to bed. Michelin knew they had a problem, they admitted they had a problem. Yes they stuffed up, but for the FIA to penalise the fans who had paid good money to come and see the race is a farce.

As Lucas said, the Michelin teams offered to run at the back of the grid and with no points awarded to them if they put in the chicane. Why wouldn't Ferrari agree to this? What did they have to lose? They would have come away with the points anyway.

As for changing the tyres, when does the tyre become dangerous? Michelin sure didn't know. What if a tyre blew between pit stops? Go to jail Mr team boss for knowingly providing an unsafe workplace.

Slow down for that corner. HAHAHAHA Tell an F1 driver to slow down, thats pretty funny. What speed was slow enough to stop the tyre failure? There are too many variables. How tempting as a driver in the heat of the moment, would it be to push the tyres just that little bit more.

I'm almost glad they didnt race, maybe Bernie will realise that he can't run the show with only his special red cars on the grid.

[Schtoo]

Who cares? F1 has been a joke for so many years I can't remember when it was actually meaningful.

But I think this might be a turning point, might be. The whole mess (save Ferrari) have been threatening to do their own thing without Bernie, and this might be the straw that breaks the camels back.

I certainly hope so. If they do make their own formula the very least they could do is hire F1's current rule writer and place them under a strict contract so they can't have any say in any race rule book. Might make Ferrari pull their heads in a little too. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind Ferrari at all, but they do occasionally need to be told who runs the show and it isn't them.

Yeah, I do watch F1. I can see an identical spectacle by walking down to the train tracks too.

[Harry72]

Bah gimme WRC anyday!
Anyone see Turkey's highlights, 1 min in 33K's theres no catching the leader(and 5 1st's out of 7 races, history in the making)

[Stuart]

As Lucas said, the Michelin teams offered to run at the back of the grid and with no points awarded to them if they put in the chicane. Why wouldn't Ferrari agree to this? What did they have to lose? They would have come away with the points anyway.

Uh - perhaps checking your info might be better, Ferrari didn't block the chicane - the FIA did. Ferrari made no commitment to the chicane proposal - for or against. Their position was to stay out of that decision process.

I don't disagree that "slowing down" isn't a real option - but there were others, and at least one that would not have unduly affected the race (changing tyres during pitstops under the "for safety" rule).

As to Lucas:

do you relise that 9 of the teams wanted to sign off on the chicane
the chicane was to be placed between corner 12 and 13
seeing corner 13 was the one doing the damage then this would have solved the problem with the Michelin tyres
and then the team running Michelin tyres then suggested that they run with no points being awarded to them so as to put on a show

Yes - I was well aware of that, as would have been obvious from my first post.

Funny - 9 teams - 8 running Michelins, and Minardi who are lucky to be able to start each race given the 120% rule for lap speed.

My comments still stand. the chicane would not have made it safer- it would have slowed down the cars capable of taking the corner faster. If the Michelin teams wanted to put on a "show" - no one was actually stopping them. They had other options, and ones that would have allowed them to still get points (even with tyre changes, slower cornering, or a penalty for running on the new Michelin tyres that could run the circuit) Who would be prepared to say they couldn't beat a Minardi (who were lapped), or a Jordan (who can't get around a lap of the circuit without flat-spotting a tyre)? So positions 3 onward were still well up for grabs.

And it wouldn't have taken much more for the two Ferraris to take each other out, and so even 1st and 2nd could have been on the cards.

But instead, rather than play the odds, and possibly come up trumps, the non Michelin teams tried to hold the FIA to ransom to get their way.

Oh, and before you question my loyalties, I have been a Schumacher fan for a long time, (no surprise there), but I really want to see Webber take his place, and for that, he needs a good car (has that), good tyres (Michelins? hmm) and experience. He can't get that sitting in the pits.

Question to ponder - if it was only Ferrari (or even-only Bridgestone) that had a technical problem, would anyone seriously consider altering the circuit to accomodate them?

[Daddles]

Trying to blame Ferrari for this is sheer, unadulterated nonsense. Come on. This forum is above that. If you want to play those games, try one of the F1 forums.

The culprit here is Michelin and I suspect that somewhere within that organisation, a chief design engineer is brushing up on his bridge building ... with an eye to an enforced career shift.

Michelin have been running their tyres close to the edge for a long time - look at the number of 'slicks' that come off the cars during and after races. Incidentally, that is against the rules as the rules state that the tyres must have the grooves at all times, but there has been no performance gain, probably a loss, so the FIA haven't moved on the issue. This isn't unknown in F1 and even in today's enlightened age (pause for hysterical laughter), there will quite a few components that will last the race but not much longer.

But this weekend, they cut things too fine and their tyres weren't up to the job. We're lucky that no-one was badly hurt - remember Ralph's injuries last year when launched into the wall on that same corner? The humiliation of the race and loss of points will dramatically affect the strength with which Michelin can negotiate future contracts, may even affect current contracts. Ron Dennis and Frank Williams aren't known for compassion and forgiveness with this sort of screw up ... and a screw up it is. It could be argued that no further action need to be taken against Michelin but with the effect this will have on F1 in America, a country shy of the code anyway yet still important due to the marketing potential, I'd be surprised if there aren't penalties handed down, even if they aren't official or public.

As for changing the track or the rules to suit the Michelin runners - I heard no such demands earlier in the season when the Bridgestones weren't up to the task. And running without getting points? Get real.

What happened was the appropriate response to a regrettable situation.

The cure lies in Michelin taking more care in their testing and design, but I suspect they'll do that without urging.

Mad Max Mosely should look very carefully at the ludicrous tyre rules he's introduced because quite frankly, they contributed to this debacle, though that does not excuse Michelin. And the two race engine rule - the Michelin runners for whom this was the first race on an engine, now go into the next GP with an advantage (a fresh engine) though to be honest, I don't know how many cars are in this position.

I wonder what chance Michelin will have when the F1 chooses the manufacturer of the control tyre in a couple of years time.

Cheers
Richard

[Stuart]

Bridgestone slicks control tyre.......mmmmm - drool.

[Jack E]

Stuart,

First you said

Ferrari didn't block the chicane - the FIA did.

Then when Lucas asked if you were aware that 9 teams wanted to sign off on the chicane you said

Yes - I was well aware of that, as would have been obvious from my first post.

So which is it? I think being one of two teams not willing to approve a track change would amount to them blocking the chicane proposal.

F1 have done alot of good work lately in the rules department in order to promote closer racing. This is obviously working because Ferrari are not dominating anymore.

F1 is a spectacle, mostly there for entertaining the fans which is what didn't happen in the U.S.

BTW, I love Ferrari and think Schumacher is a freak.

Jack

[Daddles]

Sadly Jack, Ferrari aren't dominating because Bridgestone have yet to produce a decent tyre. On occasion, the cars have had the race speed but can't produce it with the single lap qualifying system. The rules aren't the reason.

Cheers
Richard

[pau1]

Uh - perhaps checking your info might be better, Ferrari didn't block the chicane - the FIA did. Ferrari made no commitment to the chicane proposal - for or against. Their position was to stay out of that decision process.

I didn't say they blocked it. I said they wouldn't agree to it. Sitting on the fence in this situation is as good as blocking it anyway. And what about that testing ban that the other teams agreed to? Seems Ferarri are quite happy to go their own way when it suits them. I wonder how long they and Bernie will be happy when all the other manufacturers leave the championship?

As for changing the tyres, when and how often? At what point do they become un-safe? Would you have the race become an even bigger farce with teams pitting every second lap to check the tyres?

As for running the new tyres with a penalty, thats probably just as unsafe as running the old ones. The tyres were untested on the track. What if the engineers got it wrong again? Would you be happy to strap on a set of "unknow quantity" tyres and go and race on them?

I didn't say it's Ferraris fault, but they could have done more to facilitate a solution and chose not to. The blame for the crap tyres and the resulting dillema obviously lies with Michelin. The blame for the subsiquent crap race isn't as clear cut.

[Daddles]

This from a statement by the FIA on Monday

"Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate by clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

"At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess.

"However the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane. The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down.

"The Michelin teams' lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One."

I'm not that annoyed that Michelin were so unprofessional as to present an unsafe tyre, though it should be noted that two weeks ago, the FIA warned Michelin not to compromise safety for performance - this after Kimi's dramas with the flat spot and the blown suspension. Clearly Michelin didn't listen.

But the disgrace in this situation is Michelin's behaviour in trying to get the rules changed to suit them. Remember Stoddart trying to run last year's cars at Melbourne? In both cases, the team/manufacturer, tried to blackmail the FIA who, for a change made a sensible decision and stuck to the line that if your equiptment isn't up to scratch, you have to accept the consequences.

A six car race is pretty silly, but anything else would have been true Formula Farce, and we see too much of that in F1 as it is.

Richard