Making window frames

[Wildman]

HI All

I have got a couple of windows that need replacing and need some pointers. Along with plenty of other stuff in this house, we have extremely ordinary windows. Basically there is a timber surround attached to the wall, then these steel windows that sit in from the outside that are attached to the wood with screws. They are very old and impossible to attach a lock to so we are replacing them. I was wondering if I should take the whole window out and put a whole new one in or if I should just remove the steel frames and build directly into the existing timber surround (which is in good condition). The benefit of building in is that existing waterproofing doesnt get affected and I dont have to repaint so much. The window opening would be smaller though.

The hole in the wall that would be made if the existing window is completely removed is approx 1500x1250mm which I dont know if it is standard or not. If it is, perhaps a pre-made window would be easiest. If I build myself, (the plan is 2/3 solid glass, 1/3 casement opening) and I make the frames out of KD, with possibly double glazed and tinted or laminated and tinted glass, what should I be aware of? Does anyone have any window plans showing window frame cross sections that may be beneficial over any designs I come up with myself? Are there any weather proofing tricks for casement openings that I should be aware of? The tinting is necessary as it gets full westerly sun all afternoon and the room gets hot in summer. I have already put foilboard in the walls for insulation but need to get the window done before I can finish the room.

Basically I need the cheapest functional option due to large mortgage and a loss of one income due to impending first time parenthood in the next few weeks so the less this costs the better. I dont have any issue making it, but I cant afford to have 4 goes at it to get it right. I also dont have too long as it will be the baby's room and I still have to finish the kitchen and the main bedroom and the storm damage in the hallway in the next 8-10 weeks while working full time.....

Cheers
Ben

[journeyman Mick]

Ben,
there's no such thing as an off the shelf, standard sized window. Any "standard" sizes are just norms more than anything else. If budget is your primary consideration then you'll find that an aluminium window fitted to the existing timber will be the cheapest option. There's a fair bit of machining involved in timber windows, so unless you have a router table (or spindle moulder) and a fair selection of tooling or a whole swag of hand planes it will be difficult to get a quality job.

Mick

[Bob Willson]

Hi Ben
Try the Trading Post and similar before you go to the trouble of making these. They often have silky oak or similar windows at giveaway prices.

[Wildman]

I do have a router table and approx 30 assorted router bits so machining timber to suit is not a problem, what I need is some indication of the profiles that work best. Also where would I get good casement hinges? Are there any tricks to hinging windows? Perhaps an Awning type would be easier, although the Mrs wants casement.

Aluminium was considered but I find they generally dont look great and dont last very well as well as being less secure. I can get pretty much any extrusion through a mate if needed and can cut aluminium on my mitre saw but I think timber will give a better finish.

There is not much to suit in the trading post, the closest is a second hand awning window for $300. If I build into the existing surround I should be able to get away with $50 in timber, $50 for hinges and a winder lock and 6mm laminated glass will be around $200 so for about the same price I can get probably better windows. Assuming of course that I do a good job.....and get it right the first time...

[journeyman Mick]

Ben
Whitco still makes a casement hinge, any good hardware store should stock them or be able to get them in promptly. Just had a look through my books and can't really find any good illustrations showing profiles. Main thing is that the completed window should shed water without relying on any sealants. Ie: match the ends of your jambs and mullions to the shape of the sill, don't rebate the sill out in order to fit the jambs. Ideally the stop beads should be part of the jambs and mullions, not planted on afterwards as this just gives moisture a place to do collect and cause damage.

Mick

[ChrisH]

Hi Wildman

I made my own casements and am very happy with them. I had little prevoius woodworking experience, bought a triton workbench and a few other tools for the job. Saved about $15000 for the house lot. (double glazed)

I used Truth window hardware which I HIGHLY recommend. They are made in USA but make the Whitco stuff look like rubbish. The hinges are ingenious. The Melbourne distributor is JP harware, website is www.joinprod.com.au. They cost about $60 or $70 per opening sash for hinges, winder and latch.

The Truth USA website is www.truth.com and is very helpful.

I am happy to give more info about my windows if you like. They are double glazed and timber is cypress which is naturally rot-resistant. I'd be wary about using KD hardwood unless it was treated - you don't want to watch your handiwork rot away.

Chris.

[Wildman]

Thanks Mick and Chris

The stop beads have to be added on afterwards as I am using the existing jambs that dont have any on them. I will be ensuring there is a good seal, glue and paint so water cant work its way in.

The frames are KD but as I dont want the timber look, they will be well sealed with good external grade paint so should last a while at least. They will be painted in place before the glass goes in so should be fine.

I am going 6mm laminate rather than double glazing, and will be getting foil put on it to reflect heat. My design allows easy double glazing down the track on the main pane and if I run the opening window frame over the router again and rabbet the back as well as the front, I could also double glaze it without too many issue.

Thanks for the heads up re JP hardware, exactly what I have been looking for yet exactly what has been getting me blank looks at the hardware (and even blanker looks at bunnings). I will be giving them a visit before the windows go in. Pity they are in Dandenong, bit of a hike from my place, not too bad from work though. From the looks of their catalogue, casement could be back on the menu after I settled on awning windows due to lack of options.

Cheers
Ben

[ChrisH]

Hi wildman

JP Hardware have an office in Thomastown too if that is more convenient to you. I have dealt with both offices and got better discounts from Thomastown.

Truth casement hinges - there is the "standard" version and the "Maxim" version which is a new improved version. I used Maxim because from memory they are a little easier to install (accurate routing is less critical) and the hinges are available in two versions - "washability" for upstairs windows (dormers in my case) where the hinges articulate inwards when open, so that you can put your arm between the sash and the jamb to wash the outside of the glass from inside -pretty clever - and "egress" which doesn't articulate, used to maximise opening size where the window is legally also a fire escape. Also the Maxim series are adjustable, so that if you install the sash a wee bit crooked, you can square it up by turning an adjustment on the hinge. Plus once installed, you can remove the sash from inside without undoing any of the mounting screws - just pry a lever off a pin top and bottom, then slide the sash across to disengage and try not to drop it on the roof.... I am so rapt in the Truth hardware - Allows a ham fisted amateur like me to make bloody beautiful professional looking windows.

Re double glazing - if you are considering it, get prices on made up double glazed units from Moen Glass in Montrose. Apart from their accounts department which has on two occasions lost any record of my payments (amicably resolved though) they have been very good to deal with and extremely cheap - cheaper for double glazing from them than single glazing from the local glass merchants.
eg - 1 window double glazed - 3mm glass each side, 10mm air space, 976mm x 523mm was $28.92. That is for the double glazed insert made up, ready to drop into my timber frame. A larger one - 1536 x 779 with toughened glass was $85.
My total second order for double glazing for three sets of full glass French doors (six doors in total) plus front and back doors plus two large windows , all in toughened glass was about $1000.

Chris.