T&G flooring - An obvious answer?

[Programmer]

Should one fit T&G nice and tight or leave any gap? Or, is that a side benefit of T&G where the tounge can move into/out of the groove?

From what I've seen, it appears expansion/contraction is general - being that a tight fit might break the useable (can't think of the word!!) area (width wize), and that contraction might result in loose (looser) boards?

OK, so should I fit nice and tight? It's for an verandah semi-covered by the eaves - gets morning sun - almost never (once a year) rain at the edges.

I feel the question is a bit silly :confused: because it's what T&G is, nice smooth fit. Thought I'd better check before stuffing up!

[Carpenter]

Why are you using T&G outside? Although this is often seen in Federation houses with wide vehranda's, they're usually covered by by a roof that partially protects the floor, but even this is still not a good idea. T&G flooring is designed to be used inside. Decking is for outside. The reason?...in an external situation, the cycle of damp/dry is very taxing on the timber. The join of the tongue in the groove holds water & provides a place for the water to soak into the timber. After some time you'll find the joint will curl up & start to look pretty crappy. The boards will begin to split/crack/breakup from the most exposed area, in old houses thats out near the edge of the deck where it cops the most rain. Thats why we use decking, no joint to hold water.

[Programmer]

Thanks for the response Carpenter. Jarrah T&G was common not just for Federation, but also for other periods including Cal Bung verandah's (mine). I'm replacing what was there. The verandah is covered (guess that's why they call it a verandah...). Decking is OK, but does not keep with the period, and that's my aim. I guess you could say that T&G was originally not the best choice, but in keeping with the period it's the best choice for this (particular) situation. I suppose I wanted to 'keep to the period', but maybe blend some of today's techniques etc. If there were in fact, any.

I've taken your points on-board and might deviate a little to protect the edges etc a bit further - without ruining the look. Cheers.

[mcfu tom]

Could you use square edge decking board without the t&g, butt jointed. This would reduce the area or profile that might retain water but still give the appearance of the original t&g boarding. Cupping may be a problem but with maintenance (oiling) and minimal rain water it should be OK.
Should also be a lot cheaper.
Just a thought.
Tom

[Island Nomad]

Jarrah T&G was common not just for Federation, but also for other periods including Cal Bung verandah's (mine). I'm replacing what was there.

I'm with carpenter don't use T&G outside, just because someone did a stupid thing in the first place, no need to follow like a sheep. Why are you having to replace it huh!

[Carpenter]

Not a bad idea Tom. I reckon the square edged decking would be a great compromise between authenticity & practicality. If you haven't already bought the timber Programmer, this is the go! However, if you have got it already, I think I can remember seeing a job where the tongue & grooves were given a coat of paintable bitumen before assembly. It sticks like **** to a blanket & if you heat it up in some boiling water before use it gets real thin & is easier to put on. Then just push the boards together & wipe off any excess with a turps soaked rag. Using bitumen on timber joints is an old method common before the use of modern caulks & joint sealing compounds. I reckon its still worth a go in this situation because it will really help to protect the T & G joint from the water, but it still allows the joint to move because of bitumens propencity to stay soft.

[glock40sw]

G'day All.
We supplied material for the renovation of a heratige listed pub here in Grafton.
The Pub has a verandah all the way around it.
We supplied tallowood on a shiplap profile. 90x19.
This allows the floor to have a T&G look but not hold water.
It has been down now for about 12 months and the minimal board movement from wetting and direct sun is un-noticable to the general public.
Everyone raves about how good it looks.

So, Shiplap may be another profile you might want to look at.

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor.
Grafton

[glock40sw]

Using bitumen on timber joints is an old method common before the use of modern caulks & joint sealing compounds. I reckon its still worth a go in this situation because it will really help to protect the T & G joint from the water, but it still allows the joint to move because of bitumens propencity to stay soft.

You can get brushable duraseal that will do this.
Its as black as a black cats Ars3, so be careful that is doesn't get on the top face of the timber.
Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor.
Grafton

[Programmer]

Thanks for the responses guys. I'll take all your comments on board, so to speak... Just a final response to Island Nomad regarding the quote:

I'm with carpenter don't use T&G outside, just because someone did a stupid thing in the first place, no need to follow like a sheep. Why are you having to replace it huh!

Although I did say I didn't think using the T&G under cover in an external fashion was probably the "best choice", I didn't say that I thought it was a "stupid thing" to do. Take a look around, there is much, much more T&G used under-cover in external situations than you are obviously aware, and as long as it is 'looked after', it's fine. It lasts longer, and looks alot better than most of us! I am not stating that we should use it on 'decks', for example (open to all elements). The reason it is being replaced is because it is 80+ years old, and it has seen much traffic in its long life. Water damage, as such, has little to do with it. Yes, I take all the comments seriously regarding T&G's water-holding properties, however I don't believe keeping to period is following like the preverbial "sheep".

If the explanation sounds a bit defensive then sobeit, it really is meant to explain my situation. Baaaaaaah

[Island Nomad]

Programmer,

I may have got a little excited, sorry.

And BAAA to you too!!

[Programmer]

No problem at all, and no apology required. All help is appreciated, and Island Nomad's actually got me thinking about a few other issues too. Whether I'm being told my ideas are ridiculous or visionary (unlikely...), it all helps. Hey, would something like Bitkote #3 (technically known to me as 'black oozy smelly, takes forever to completely dry stuff that the wife hates') be a poor substitute for the Malthoid strips?

[powderpost]

In the days when people could afford a verandah, the houses up here in the tropics, were either two feet or six feet six off the ground. The flooring was normally four by one shot edge flooring. When we could get them, galvanised nails were used. Nailing was done in a zig zag pattern to minimise splitting of the top of the floor joist and a nail was used to maintain an even gap between the boards. My own house has a verandah with a floor of hickory, a very durable species. It is now 24 years old.

Jim

[Island Nomad]

Malthoid is pretty cheap. I just buy a roll and cut with a hacksaw into 50mm strips. Then roll out and nail to top of joists with some fibro nails. When you nail the floor the nail penetrates it and it seals around the nail. I pulled up a 50 year old verandah floor once, which had been exposed that entire time and the joists were as good as the day they went down.

The black oozy smelly stuff sounds very messy to me, like a retaining wall tanking. You could try it. It is a very original idea and might even be visionary and certainly not ridiculous.

Use the malthoid.

[journeyman Mick]

In the days when people could afford a verandah,............

Actually Jim, judging from the houses that are being built now, most people can afford verandahs (or at least the bank will lend them enough for one ). However, they choose instead to have larger houses, airconditioners, feature walls etc etc etc, instead of something as sensible as a verandah. I reckon they should be mandatory in the tropics!

Q. Why do people need houses?
A. To have something to hang their verandahs off of.

Mick

[Programmer]

Well you certainly need one up there JourneyMan. The difference between yours and mine is that your's stops you getting burnt and wet, and mine from getting wet. I love verandahs, I think houses today look so, mmmmm, ordinary. I guess it's all about $. Sad really.