How many coats of Danish Oil?

[Dengue]

I am making a mirror frame of silky oak, and intend coating it with Danish Oil to bring out the beautiful grain.

Can anyone please suggest how many coats I should use in this application?

Can anyone suggest a better finish for this frame, instead of Danish Oil?

[antiphile]

With Danish Oil, I always seem ending up with three coats. I suppose I might be easily pleased, but it always seems to look beautiful after 3; it doesn't really improve much after that (to me at least).

[Dengue]

Thanks for this info antiphile. Do you sand back between coats?

[LGS]

Hi Jill,
Yes I can suggest a better alternative. Wattyl Scandinavian Oil. The can says to use estapol first, but you don't need to. Just wipe on two or three coats. Give each coat a vigorous rub in. No need for anything else, though you might want to use Trad Wax over the top. I guarantee you'll get clearer grain definition with this than with Danish Oil containing Polyurethane. Try it out yourself on some scrap.

Wattyl Scandinavian Oil is available in 250ml cans.

This pic may help This test was done about 5 years ago, comparing China Wood Oil, Cabot's Danish Oil and Wattyl Scandinavian Oil on the same piece of beautifully figured Red gum. It should be plain that the grain is better seen and more delicate in both the China Wood Oil and Scandinavian Oil than in the Danish Oil. The China Wood Oil gives a flat finish, while the Wattyl Oil will give a satin finish under your proposed conditions.

Regards,

Rob

[Dengue]

Thanks Rob, this is very interesting information. Do you sand between coats, and what grade of paper would you use?

[antiphile]

With pure Danish Oil I don't sand in between (it maybe laziness). But with the Danish Oil "derivatives" with drying agents and hardeners etc (like Feast Waston Scandinavian Oil), I usually sand very lightly by hand with 400 or 600 grit after allowing at least 12 hours for drying.

Cheers
Phil

[LGS]

Hi Jill and Antiphile,

Jill, I would sand between coats with what antiphile suggests, though I doubt I'd wait for 12 hours. If you rub the oil in thoroughly and briskly, it should soak in pretty quickly on the first and second coats, so you could sand about 2-3 hours after each coat. the third shouldn't need sanding.

Antiphile, what's your definition of pure Danish Oil? Most DO's that I know of and that includes Feast Watson Scandinavian Oil have Polyurethane in their mix. For the result I showed, you would use Tung Oil with some additives, maybe varnish and some drying agents, but no Polyurethane. In fact, if you use the burnishing method I use, then you soon find out what does and doesn't contain PU. Any PU will thicken and turn to muck which does not dry and ruins the finish.

Regards,

Rob

[antiphile]

Hi Jill and Antiphile,

Antiphile, what's your definition of pure Danish Oil? Most DO's that I know of and that includes Feast Watson Scandinavian Oil have Polyurethane in their mix. For the result I showed, you would use Tung Oil with some additives, maybe varnish and some drying agents, but no Polyurethane. In fact, if you use the burnishing method I use, then you soon find out what does and doesn't contain PU. Any PU will thicken and turn to muck which does not dry and ruins the finish.
Rob

Hi Rob

I have memories of reading a discussion (somewhere on this forum???) about the difference between DO and its derivatives like Scandinavian Oil etc. My memory isn't what it should be, but I'll look for it and check I haven't misinterpreted it, whih is more than possible of course, and post the link. But my memory is DO is just an oil without hardeners and drying agents - but don't hang me if I'm wrong (again)!

[LGS]

Thanks for that. I'm just curious is all. The closest I've come to a pure oil (apart from straight Tung Oi of course) is the Organoil products, which do contain some drying agents but not much else, They give a great finish if applied the right way.

Regards,

Rob

[Drillit]

Hello JillB,
1st dampen whole frame - water on paper towel. When dry sand with say 240 grit to remove the nap than stands up from the wipe over. Then ...If you are using DO and I use it regularly, I always use wet and dry paper (600 grit) to put on the first coat and then wipe it off and let it dry (1 day). 2nd coat -brush on leave for say an hour and wipe off. Let dry - 1 day. 3rd coat - as for 2. Leave 2 or 3 days for finsih to harden. Check. Then you can finally finish with say satinproof Feast and Watson - 2 coats (or such other poly type finish). Hope this helps, Drillit.

[Karl1]

Well, to throw a dissenting spanner into the works, I use Rustin's Danish Oil extensively and am very satisfied with the results. It has no polyurethane and does not 'yellow' like some oil finishes. I usually have 3-4 coats and apply each with 0000-grade steel wool.

[LGS]

Hi Karl,
Don't know who you are dissenting with, but you are just reinforcing my opinion that pure oil finishes are better than those containing PU.

Rob

[Karl1]

Yes LGS, I suppose am getting paranoid in my dotage. The dissent was with the type of oil to be used. I have used both Feast Watson and Rustin's and both are good, but the latter is the best for me. I wasn't going to say it but I look askance at Wattyl because I suspect that the chap that made my Tasmanian Oak table 15 years ago used their PU for the finish, which now exibits a striking and not altogether pleasant orange hue in certain lights. And before anyone takes issue, i fully acknowledge that PU and oil are two different animals!

[LGS]

OK So after reading a few PD Sheets, it appears that there are two types of Oil finish generally available.
1. Tung Oil and Tung Oil mixtures

2. BLO and BLO mixtures.

An Oil which does not have PU in it will be declared as an oil. Those with PU and other things will be labelled as Oil with "Synthetic resins"

As far as I am concerned, I get excellent results using a Tung Oil product without resins. Either using it wiped straight on then off again, or soaking into the timber for a period of time then spending some time wet sanding to high grits.

In my hands, using straight oil finishes provides better resolution of grain
(e.g.China Wood Oil, AKA Tung Oil or Natural Teak Oil AKA Wattyl Scandinavian Oil.) These are all the same thing.
Using a finish with "synthetic resins, however, again in my hands, reduces the visibility and delicacy of any grain in the wood.

So I would recommend using a raw Oil finish as per instructions, then allow it to dry for a couple of days and pour over your PU or Shellac or Wax as you wish separately.

At least try it. You might get better bang for the amount of work you put into the piece you've just finished.

LGS

[Dengue]

Hi all, I decided to give LGS's recommendation a go with Wattyl Scandinavian Oil.

Neither Bunnies nor Mitre 10 had any, neither did Wattyl on their web site

I ended up at the local Wholesale Trade Paints place who had Wattyl Teak Oil "Scandinavian". Got a 500ml tin of it, but had 2nd thoughts as I didn't want any teak stained oil on my valuable silky oak.

Headed off to the Wattyl wholesale place in Townsville ( didn't know it existed before) and they said it was not stained, just Teak Oil, also known as Scandinavian Oil ... whew!!

Followed the advice of Drillit, and wet and sanded the frame ( I had been wondering about doing that before he posted) , then wiped on lots of oil and rubbed it in with steel wool from the local hardware store.

First coat looks flat and dull on drying, but when it was first being applied the wet silky oak was a beautiful golden honey colour, and I will swear it got more golden with a few rubs of steel wool .

Will let it dry overnight, then apply another 2 coats over the next two days. Got some thin 800 and 1000 grit foam pads ( as used by panel beaters) to wipe off any dust that settled on the oil overnight - will be good for the finely moulded edges too, quite soft and malleable.

Will post some pics when the third coat goes on.

Thanks for all your advice, it has made the job so much easier knowing how to go about it the right way

not sure about what to do after the third coat of oil - apply estapol , or beeswax , or just leave it as is. Can anypone please advise ?