Newby dovetail saw

[planemaker]

Hi. Completed my 1st handsaw build. A dovetail saw. 8 1/4" blade. 2 5/8" wide. 20 tpi.
Wanted a vintage look on the final appearance. Like to here your feedback. good & bad.

thanks. planemmaker.

before & after final finish.

[IanW]

Not half bad for a first build, PM!

I like the flourishes - the little twirly bits in the notches. My only suggestion would be to be bold & take a rasp & spokeshave to parts of your next one, rather than use a roundover bit for the whole profile. This is, of course a matter of personal taste, but if you look at the nicer old handles, they have quite a varied edge treatment.

I like to make the grip slightly oval in cross-section, rather than rounded with flat sides, as I find that shape fits in my palm very comfortably. However, RayG (who has looked at one or two saws ) likes a definite flat, so it's a moot point. Whatever, it certainly looks a lot more hand-friendly than most of the factory jobs.....

Now, how does it cut...?

Cheers,

[planemaker]

Thanks Ian. Appreciate your honest appraisal. Will keep all your suggestions in mind when making the next handle. By the way, no router was used for rounding over. All done with a round file and scraper. The saw cuts really, really good. The burr left after sharpening was enough to negate the need to add any set.

Stewie.

[RayG]

Hi Stewie,

Nice work, I like the way you have recessed the nibs, and the transition to the brass back set back from the profile. I think it looks good.

I also like the rounding on the brass back, that must have taken forever to get right.

For a first saw, it's very creative and has a definite style, a bit of latent artistic talent lurking there...

The only critisism, I would have is that the teeth look a bit uneven, but it's hard to tell in the photo. I find 20 tpi teeth almost impossible to see properly let alone file, you are very ambitious doing 20 tpi on your first saw!

Great work , and welcome to the "saw makers anonymous" support group!

Regards
Ray

PS, I meant to ask what does TTC stand for?

[haggismuncher]

Very nice looking saw.
Thre is something very appealling about making your own tools.

As someone thinking of dipping his toe into the water of making saws, just one question, could you direct me to a beginner's website/book/etc where I could get a background to what I am getting myself into?

Hey, I fly fish, tie my own flies, do woodwork so another addiction would be a relief.

Chris

[IanW]

........All done with a round file and scraper. The saw cuts really, really good. The burr left after sharpening was enough to negate the need to add any set.

Stewie.

My apologies, PM, you've done it so evenly all round I would have sworn it was the work of a machine. You have a steady hand and a good eye!

If only doing shallow cuts, no set will be fine, particularly on crisp woods, but I find I need a bit of set on my dovetailers, particularly when cutting softer woods that tend to pinch. The other reason is that a touch of set gives you a wee bit of steerage-way, otherwise you have to start the saw perfectly aligned with the cut. I have to watch the scribe line at the start (& I'm finding it increasingly hard to see the darn thing! ), and make very small corrections in the first 3 or 4 strokes.

Cheers,

[planemaker]

Very nice looking saw.
Thre is something very appealling about making your own tools.

As someone thinking of dipping his toe into the water of making saws, just one question, could you direct me to a beginner's website/book/etc where I could get a background to what I am getting myself into?

Hey, I fly fish, tie my own flies, do woodwork so another addiction would be a relief.

Chris

Hi Chris. The best advise to give you is the same I relied on. Send a pm to RayG or IanW on this forum. They are far more experienced at saw making than I .

planemaker.

[IanW]

.......As someone thinking of dipping his toe into the water of making saws, just one question, could you direct me to a beginner's website/book/etc where I could get a background to what I am getting myself into?

Chris - there are a few 'how-tos' on the web if you google "making hand saws" or something similar. There are also lots of threads on this forum where various aspects have been discussed, and advice given.

Of course, everything seems a lot easier when you've done it (I couldn't imagine tying a fly, but you'd probably tell me it's easy! ), but most of the steps in saw-making aren't that challenging, if you take it step by step. P'raps the biggest puzzlement for a beginner is how to get a brass spine organised, and how to cut the teeth. You can buy brass flats in a wide range of sizes (1/4" x 3/4" is very suited to medium to larger saws, but I move to around 3/16" thick material for saws smaller than about 220mm long). The slitting is easy if you have a minimum of machinery. Ray made a very simple slitting jig, which I copied. I bought a cheap arbor & slitting saws from McJing's (~$30 plus postage). The saws may not be the most wonderful quality, but they are more than accurate enough for this job, and mine have cut a lot of brass and going strong... Just set your jig up accurately, and cut the slot in several shallow passes and you'll get a nice, straight slot (which is kind of essential).

Cutting teeth is also covered in several discussions. I wimped out on my first couple of saws, and had the tooth profiles cut by a local saw-sharpening place. The smallest teeth their machine will do is 15 tpi, and I wanted at least one 18 tpi saw, so after a bit of goading from RayG, I decided to give it a go. I have used two methods. Paper templates are one way - you can make them up with your computer using a word processor. Make a bunch of solid lines & just vary the font size to get the spacing you want. It's a bit hit & miss if you are after an exact spacing, but I want even-ness, not a precise number of tpi - it doesn't make an iota of difference if you have 20, 21 or 22 tpi in the grand scheme of things. You can also mark out & rule a bunch of lines - tedious, & b. hard to get dead even! Ray recently posted a set on another thread, which is very handy (- just tried a quick search, but didn't find it, but Ray will probably check in later & can point you to it). The other method which is probably easier, is to use an existing saw as your guide when marking out the teeth.

In any case, the best way to learn is to wade in, like Planemaker, and give it a go - there aren't many mistakes that can't be corrected quite easily. I was pretty pleased with the first one I tried, as all the folks who have posted their first efforts seem to be. My next one was better.....

Cheers,

[planemaker]

My apologies, PM, you've done it so evenly all round I would have sworn it was the work of a machine. You have a steady hand and a good eye!

If only doing shallow cuts, no set will be fine, particularly on crisp woods, but I find I need a bit of set on my dovetailers, particularly when cutting softer woods that tend to pinch. The other reason is that a touch of set gives you a wee bit of steerage-way, otherwise you have to start the saw perfectly aligned with the cut. I have to watch the scribe line at the start (& I'm finding it increasingly hard to see the darn thing! ), and make very small corrections in the first 3 or 4 strokes.

Cheers,

Hi IAN. I tell ya what. 20tpi is very challenging but enjoyable. I used a technique from the Saw Blog where Matt recommends focusing only on the tooth height , rather than tryimg to control both tooth height and gullet depth. It does make the process of sharpening much easier. I put a lot of focus on proper jointing, using the carbon paper technique mentioned in a previous blog I wrote. I believe with the smaller teeth and high tpi, jointing needs to be spot on.

You mentioned in one of your blogs previously having to find the right technique when doing high tpi sharpening. I totally agree. The files I am using are only 2 1/2" long, so you dont get much to hang. I found the best way for me was to have a strong light behind the saw plate, and to position myself looking front on to the saw teeth and not from the side.

Spreading out the file strokes to each tooth is another good tip you passed on. Especially near the end where the shiny marks start to close up and its necesarry to make up any slight difference in teeth spacings.

I used spray on adhesive for the paper template. Worked really well. Just need to wipe down the plate with paint thinners before hand to remove any greasing.

Thanks again Ian.

By the way. I will be sending you and RayG each a bottle of Gun Blue. It will be coming from the USA so it may take 3-4 weeks. Will chase up your postal address details when they arrive.

Stewie. (planemaker)

[planemaker]

Hi Stewie,

Nice work, I like the way you have recessed the nibs, and the transition to the brass back set back from the profile. I think it looks good.

I also like the rounding on the brass back, that must have taken forever to get right.

For a first saw, it's very creative and has a definite style, a bit of latent artistic talent lurking there...

The only critisism, I would have is that the teeth look a bit uneven, but it's hard to tell in the photo. I find 20 tpi teeth almost impossible to see properly let alone file, you are very ambitious doing 20 tpi on your first saw!

Great work , and welcome to the "saw makers anonymous" support group!

Regards
Ray

PS, I meant to ask what does TTC stand for?

Hi Ray. Great to hear from you. Looks slightly uneven with some of the gullet heights but of more importance to the end performance of the saw (the top alignment of each saw tooth is spot on). If you could read the feedback I gave to IanW, it explains the approach I used.

Happy to join the saw makers support group . Who's in it.? or is that anonymous too.

regards; Stewie

Oh. nearly forgot. Was looking through my stash of backsaws and took some new photo's of my Disston No.70 . Tell ya what.Henry sure made some nice backsaw handles in the earlier years.

[wsal]

Hey Planemaker, congrats on the saw! What is the stain/finish on the handle? It looks fantastic!
Cheers
Will

[planemaker]

Hey Planemaker, congrats on the saw! What is the stain/finish on the handle? It looks fantastic!
Cheers
Will

Hi Will. Iron Oxide. The 2 flat faces are then lightly rubbed back with 0000 steel wool to bring out some of the natural wood color.

[planemaker]

Hey Planemaker, congrats on the saw! What is the stain/finish on the handle? It looks fantastic!
Cheers
Will

Hi Will. Stained with iron oxide. The 2 flat faces were then lightly sanded back with 0000 steel wool to bring back some of the natural wood colour.

[kevjed]

Well done Planemaker.
That saw looks great. 20 tpi....you are a braver man than me.
I love the colouring the Iron Oxide gives the handle. Well done.
You may have to change your handle() from Planemaker to Sawmaker.
Sorry I couldn't be more punning if I tried.
All the best
Kevin

[planemaker]

Well done Planemaker.
That saw looks great. 20 tpi....you are a braver man than me.
I love the colouring the Iron Oxide gives the handle. Well done.
You may have to change your handle() from Planemaker to Sawmaker.
Sorry I couldn't be more punning if I tried.
All the best
Kevin

Thanks Kevin. Not overly happy with the saw hang. Am busy making a new handle up. Decided I would make it a closed handle this time. Will post new photo's when completed. Will take a week allowing for the clear finish to dry.

Have'nt earned the right to call my self Sawmaker yet. Bit more learning required.

Stewie.