+Buyers' expectations and sellers' obligations in multi-item sales of goods

[Rocker]

My experience in the current sale of the goods on a buyer-collects basis from my workshop has impelled me to make the following observations and suggestions.

Some Forum members seem to entertain unrealistic expectations about a seller's obligation to give them the exclusive right to purchase an item, if they were the first to express interest in that item. In my view the seller has a right to sell to whomsoever he wishes, whether to a friend who expresses interest later, or to another Forum member who arrives with cash in hand or who undertakes to make an immediate direct deposit. Obviously, if the seller has expressly agreed to sell to a particular member, on the basis of an immediate direct deposit, the buyer has a right to expect that he will get the goods, once he has made the deposit.

If, however, the seller has merely told a potential buyer that he will let him know whether the item is still available, whilst, for instance, he finds out whether his friend wants the item, that potential buyer should have no expectation that the seller will necessarily sell to him, just because he was the first to enquire about the item. That potential buyer certainly has no grounds for accusing the seller of dishonesty, if the seller decides to sell to someone else.

I suggest that
1. Sellers should be allowed to temporarily have their messages boxes expanded, to enable them to better deal with a flood of expressions of interest; and that
2. The guidelines for multi-item sales should include a suggestion that sellers should make clear that the decision as to who has the right to purchase an item is the seller's alone, and that chronological priority in expression of interest is only one of the factors that the seller will take into consideration when deciding who to sell to; and that
3. The seller's decision, 'unfair' or not, is FINAL.

Rocker

[Vernonv]

My thoughts:

1. If a buyer has made an offer (or accepted the sale price) and the seller has accepted that, then to me that is binding (on both parties) and it would be unfair for either party to renege - although I guess there could be some circumstances that would allow it.

2. Expressing interest is not offering to buy. If you want to think about buying something then do it on your own time and don't ask the seller to hold an item, while you think.

3. If the above "rules" are followed, then the order someone expresses interest is irrelevant (because people don't "express interest", they accept to buy), but ideally this (accepting a buyers offer to buy) should be done on a first in, first served basis.

[Rocker]

Vernon,

I agree; but the grey area arises when a buyer offers to buy, but the seller, for one reason or another, does not immediately agree to sell to that particular person, because, for instance, the seller's friend has expressed an interest but is still making up his mind, and the seller wishes, if possible, to sell to his friend, or if another buyer has agreed to buy, and then reneges, and meanwhile another buyer has appeared at the seller's property with cash in hand.

In my view, the seller is not obligated to sell to the buyer who was told that the seller would let him know later whether the item was still available, if meanwhile a cash buyer turns up. In this case the seller has done what he said he was going to do, since, in effect, the item is not still available.

Rocker

[les88]

If I was selling on this forum I would leave the gear on display for a couple of weeks stating that the sale date is xx/xx/xx , the successful buyer would be the first to pay cash or transfer the money. If your friend wants first knock on an item don't advertise it this sale.
just a thought
les

[Jack E]

Rocker,

You are not a "shop" and are not selling your items subject to any rules.

What you do with the items is up to you.

Rocker is a fair and honest man.

He did not put these goods up for the benefit of forum members, rather to sell his goods for his own reasons and to his benefit.

He could have put them on ebay and we may have all missed out.

I didn't see the add until a few days after it had been posted, which was lucky for many people as I would have jumped in my ute, driven to Rockers and bought most of the gear befor anyone else had a chance

Thanks for the opportunity to buy some of your gear Rocker, I think you did the sale well.

[Rocker]

If I was selling on this forum I would leave the gear on display for a couple of weeks stating that the sale date is xx/xx/xx , the successful buyer would be the first to pay cash or transfer the money. If your friend wants first knock on an item don't advertise it this sale.
just a thought
les

Les,

At first sight, your suggestion is a good one; but I think that in practice the seller still needs to agree to sell to a particular person before that person deposits money to the seller's account, and communication problems would still ensure that disputes would arise as to who had first claim.
This is because a sale on the Forum is not like an auction, where all the buyers and the seller are present in the same place at the same time. On the Forum, significant delays occur in the communication process between buyers and the seller.

Rocker

[johnc]

I dont go along with think time, there is only a deal when there is a firm offer to buy, and the seller agrees to it. If there is a time limit to transfer funds then if you miss the dead line the item is back on the market.

Having something on hold is at the sellers discretion, and is more likely to be a waste of everyones time.

I'm in the same boat as Jack, only my loss is being in Victoria, Rockers goods were let go at very reasonable prices and the terms were set out at the start, it is very churlish of anyone to complain simply because they have trouble excepting clear instructions.

[echnidna]

If I wanted to sell something I would list it here and on ebay, so that the interested parties determine the final purchaser and price.

[Rocker]

I dont go along with think time, there is only a deal when there is a firm offer to buy, and the seller agrees to it. If there is a time limit to transfer funds then if you miss the dead line the item is back on the market.

Having something on hold is at the sellers discretion, and is more likely to be a waste of everyones time.

I'm in the same boat as Jack, only my loss is being in Victoria, Rockers goods were let go at very reasonable prices and the terms were set out at the start, it is very churlish of anyone to complain simply because they have trouble excepting clear instructions.

Johnc,

I don't think anyone was complaining about the buyer-collects condition. Complaints arose because, in some cases, I put buyers on hold, without agreeing to sell to them, and subsequently decided to sell to someone else who had travelled to my place with cash in hand.

Rocker

[Rocker]

If I wanted to sell something I would list it here and on ebay, so that the interested parties determine the final purchaser and price.

Bob,

I wanted to ensure that Forum members, rather than the general public, received first pick of my goods.

Rocker

[silentC]

I just think some people have unrealistic expectations in general and it's not worth wasting time or energy setting things up to make them happy or appease them. The 80/20 rule applies. 80% of the effort goes into making 20% of the people satisfied. Personally, in these situations, I choose to only make the first 20% of the effort and the high maintenance individuals can go elsewhere.

[blackhole]

I bought some things from Rocker and I was very happy with the way I was treated.

I think that what Rocker has done is a real service to the woodworkers of south east Queensland. He made available for sale an entire range of quality woodworking tools at prices that he knew where below what he could get on ebay.

[Vernonv]

I put buyers on hold, without agreeing to sell to them, and subsequently decided to sell to someone else who had travelled to my place with cash in hand.

That is the crux of the matter. If there is no agreement to sell, then no-one can complain.

On the same token, if the buyer says "I''ll take it, send me your details" and you send them (therefore agreeing to sell) and you subsequently sell it to someone else, then I think that is a bit rough (but it doesn't sound like this happened in Rockers instance). It's also a bit rough if the buyer then doesn't turn up (or transfer money) promptly or when arranged.

[Woodwould]

... the grey area arises when a buyer offers to buy, but the seller, for one reason or another, does not immediately agree to sell to that particular person, because, for instance, the seller's friend has expressed an interest but is still making up his mind...

That is inequitable, ambiguous and contrary to the normal order of 'first in, first served'. If a potential buyer has the funds available and is prepared to buy, then stalling or rebuffing the sale on the grounds that someone (friend or not) has expressed an interest but is still making up their mind is unjust.

Had the buyer not had sufficient funds available or requested time to accumulate sufficient funds, then that would, in my mind, be the only recourse to offer the goods to another potential buyer (friend or otherwise).

However, at the end of the day, the seller ultimately has control over who they sell to - no matter how discriminatory. Starting a thread with the aim of absolving themselves of normal fair trading practice and laying out their trading protocol after the fact is a bit rich.

[kahlua_khan]

Howdy,
To me it's all about communication. I remember trying to buy a car from the trading post a few years ago and when I went to inspect the vehicle I found he had already sold it to another buyer. The inspection had been arranged a few days prior and I was quite annoyed as it had been an hour drive to go and look at it and now it was gone. He had my mobile number but had not bothered to let me know it was gone. Subsequest to that when I sold my car I made sure to get the contact details of everyone who said they wanted to come and have a look and I let them know it was gone when a sold it. Took a few phone calls but everyone was really appreciative of it.
Cheers
Mick