Taboo subject on this forum? (Electrical queries)

[munruben]

If it's legal, then go for it, I say. If it's not, well, I think we should avoid it.

Exactly,surely we cannot condone giving out advice on this forum or any other forum for that matter, telling someone to break the law .If we do, then where do we draw the line, do we start giving out advice on how to handle explosives. I should imagine there would be experts on this subject too but I wouldn't expect them to start giving advice on how to do it just because someone wants to blow up that old tree stump in the back yard safely. Its illegal to do that.
Some of the arguments in this thread are valid ones but nevertheless, the law is the law and we have to abide by that fact. Maybe some of the rules should be changed and some of the simple electrical tasks could be undertaken by less qualified by issuing permits to those who can demonstrate their capabilities and prepared to take the necessary exams to qualify tocarry out this kind of work.
If we want to change the laws, then by all means lets try and get them changed but in the meantime, lets not break them.
It was mentioned in one of the posts that we allow non swimmers to go out in the water so should we ban that activity.Most non swimmers are supervised in the water or at least, there are usually plenty of swimmers around to keep an eye out for someone getting into trouble in the water.It would be great if the novice electrician could be supervised while undertaking his project.

[silentC]

... the "call an electrician" comment also appears in response to questions that are not illegal - such as how do I check/repair my (non-fixed wired) appliance.

In which case, it's at the discretion of the individual whether to offer advice on how to fix it, or to just suggest they take it to a rewinding service or whatever. "Take it to a repairer" is every bit as legitimate a piece of advice as "pull it apart and tweak the framistan".

BTW, I don't think you are comparing apples with apples when you use the example of speed restrictions - statistics will support the argument that slower limits save lives

If my argument was that the legislation was effective, then I would agree with you. However my argument is simply that the legislation is, and therefore we should abide by it, just like we should abide by the speed limit, despite our belief that we are all expert drivers

Unless F&E comes back with something that proves it is legal to do your own wiring, in which case I will shut my mouth on the subject.

[Wongo]

I own an electrician and I think everyone should own one too.

[NCArcher]

I own an electrician and I think everyone should own one too.

I can be bought. But i'm not cheap.

I am a qualified electrician and i will give advice if i think it is safe to give.
I wont give advice on how to carry out illegal wiring but i will clarify something in a quote if someone doesn't understand it or thinks they may be getting ripped off. I'll happily explan how something works or offer maintenance tips for electrical equipment.
I would rather someone asked the question here on the forum rather than just forge ahead and have a go. They are seeking advice and if the advice is "call a sparkie" they may do just that instead of electrocuting themselves.
As far as engineers getting licences goes well I don't have a problem with that as long as they can pass the tests, both theory and prac. To be honest i've only ever met a couple of engineers who could pass the prac. I've met many who were brilliant at design and theory but i wouldn't trust em to hammer in a nail let alone carry out wiring.

Just my 2 volts worth.

[Ramps]

Thank-you NCA
that is the sort of answer we're after
I do wonder if the higher rate of electrocutions here in Oz are due to the fact the DIY's can't get good advice anywhere? so they just have a go cos apart from not really wanting to pay $140 for a sparky to come and change one pp it would take 6 months to find one as they're all out building houses and can't be bothered to come by to change one or 2 pp's.

Also we're on the www here the operative part is "world" as a number of posters to this thread have proven. Is it not possible to state the it is illegal to do so in Aus or NSW etc but this is how it's supposed to be done (by a sparky in this case) as there are people who read this forum who ARE allowed to wire up there own home.

Would you not give advice on how to lay sheet iron on a roof because it's illegal in Vic for a non-roof-drainage-qualified plumber to do so (even though I could lay tiles on the roof ... talk about jobs for the boys!!).

Where to draw the line? why should we not be giving/gathering advice across the globe? ...

[silentC]

Is it not possible to state the it is illegal to do so in Aus or NSW etc but this is how it's supposed to be done (by a sparky in this case) as there are people who read this forum who ARE allowed to wire up there own home.

Are you suggesting that someone in America or the UK might benefit from advice on home wiring from someone in Australia? That really is stretching things a bit.

[Frank&Earnest]

NSW: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/n...89128/s14.html
ACT: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/a...994265/s9.html

Thanks silentC. At first glance I thought that you had proved my dig at the Australian States, but on closer examination you proved my point about the urban mith. After further checking of the SA legislation and your links, I believe that you have misinterpreted the Act. You can not misrepresent yourself and charge for electrical work if you are not licensed, but it is not illegal to do electrical work for yourself.
The safety aspect, as I said before, is covered by the liability of the owner (in SA section 60 of the Electricity Act). This legal technicality aside, and notwithstanding, I still totally agree with your approach about giving advice in this forum.

[Ramps]

SC
That's pretty short sighted!
for those that are allowed (and by the sounds of the previous post that sounds like all of us) to do their own wiring might well benefit from the experience from those others that are allowed to do their own wiring.

Is this forum not for everyone who cares to contribute?

[silentC]

I believe that you have misinterpreted the Act

This is the relevant bit from the NSW HOME BUILDING ACT:

An individual must not do any electrical wiring work (whether or not it is also residential building work), except:

(a) as a qualified supervisor (being the holder of an endorsed contractor licence, or a supervisor certificate, authorising its holder to do that work), or

(b) as the holder of a tradesperson certificate authorising its holder to do that work under supervision, but only if the work is done under the supervision and in accordance with the directions, if any, of such a qualified supervisor.

Looks pretty clear cut to me, did you find something else that I've missed?

[silentC]

SC
That's pretty short sighted!
for those that are allowed (and by the sounds of the previous post that sounds like all of us) to do their own wiring might well benefit from the experience from those others that are allowed to do their own wiring.

Is this forum not for everyone who cares to contribute?

Well, wiring standards and electricity supply are both quite different in the US and probably the UK as well, so I don't see how advice given on an Australian forum concerning wiring in an Australian home would be applicable, except at a very basic level.

Hmm, I thought I'd had enough of this earlier today. Why do I keep biting?

[ozwinner]

Hmm, I thought I'd had enough of this earlier today. Why do I keep biting?

cause its nice when the pain stops.

Al

[Ramps]

Hmm, I thought I'd had enough of this earlier today. Why do I keep biting?

Don't stop I'm having fun

I said the same thing on page 1 so it's good to see others don't do as they said

Good on you silent (The prince of Diplomats) ... intelligent argument and persistent... a greenie for your efforts.

I still don't agree with your point of view but I do appreciate your research and I now know where I stand ... I'd like to take it further over a beer sometime.

[joe greiner]

I'd make a distinction between why to do it, and how to do it. Why to do it (theory) is beneficial to all, and can enlighten discussion with the pro who actually does the work. How to do it would be a no-no, especially with modifications to existing construction, as the previous work might not be right.

Consider an elementary situation in plumbing. In USA anyway, hot's on the left and cold's on the right (seems to be all over the lot in EU). But not a good idea to assume this for extensions; in my house, some of them were connected wrong. Theory that "water goes downhill" is OK to discuss (I said it was elementary).

In my field of structural engineering, I can freely tell you that a simple beam has tension on the bottom and compression on the top (theory). But if you want actual beam dimensions, hire a local pro.

Joe

[Wood Borer]

I can see Silent C's point to a certain extent.

If someone asked the question "My 10 Amp fuse blew is it OK to replace it with a 20 Amp fuse?" How would you answer that question?

1. Would you tell them to employ the services of a qualified electrician because that is the law?

2. Would you tell them that like explosives and the black plague you have no knowledge of electricity and it scares you and you feel it should scare everyone else so leave it to a sparky who because he has limited training, a piece of paper and insurance he is immune to electric shocks?

3. Would you tell them that a 10 Amp fuse should only be replaced with a 10 amp fuse? BTW legally only a qualified sparky can do the job.

I agree with you Joe.

4. Would you tell them to identify what caused the fuse to blow, overcome that problem and then replace it with a fuse of the same rating? Start by unplugging all appliances on that circuit and then plugging them in one by one ...... BTW legally only a qualified sparky can do the job.

I have problems with the first three responses.

The first response is correct but offers only legal advice. Who is allowed to give legal advice anyway?

The second response is one typically given by someone who has no knowledge on the subject but feels they should post a response anyway.

The third response is correct but does nothing apart from tell the reader the obvious.

The fourth response I feel is the best because it is technically and legally correct plus it attempts to resolve the person's problem.

I think a few of us are debating this topic knocking the first three responses.

[Frank&Earnest]

This is the relevant bit from the NSW HOME BUILDING ACT:



Looks pretty clear cut to me, did you find something else that I've missed?

Sorry for not answering before, I got sidetracked by the parallel thread, then a stolen car has destroyed my front fence... I had better days.

It is indeed clear cut, but it specifically relates to building a house: it means that a builder can not employ people to do electrical work if they are not licensed. Anyway, the simplest way to clarify the matter is to call the licencing board in your state, like I did, and see what they tell you. I'll bet that it is the same as in SA. The legislation does appear consistent.