Tips for dIY downlights

[felixe]

"Crow mag man", let me enter the species into Wikpedia, Should I file you under..... soon to be extinct, or just as an idiot:confused: :eek:

Thatirwinfella, yes he states the bleedin obvious, but it is because he has a misplaced concern for your welfare. Me, I say go hard my man, I love fireworks - I should see you go up in sparks anytime soon - even from Brisbane!!
BTW no-one who actually knows is going to "help you" because you seem on a path to self destruction and I doubt anyone else will want to help you there.

And just to end on a positive note I will add something constructive.
Yes we are here to learn and to do things ourselves and not have to pay someone else, but the line is drawn at irresponsible and dangerous behaviour.
You are a fool, you don't even know basic wiring and you are willing to undertake domestic electrical work?
Get a licensed electrician to do it, don't be a tight ####!

[felixe]

BTW I sent a reddie to you for being so irresponsible!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Purse]

One word comes to mind:

Illegal


Also might want to think about House insurance repercussions, at very least, have the sparky do the connections after you have run all the wiring and installed the lighting. At least then your covered.

[pharmaboy2]

Mr crow bar, I'm about to try and convince you that in this case a sparky is a better call, but without being judgmental nor abusive.

Firstly I have installed the odd one or 2 of these, and even fixed the odd one that wasnt done properly by the licensed tradesman concerned (15yrs ago when they werent that common). secondly the information you have provided is incomplete and at odds - first post descreibes transformers in 10 pack, then later gu-10's (240v) - so its difficult for the reader to ascertain exactly what you have, and what you want to do. For instance is there already some downlights in place and add one or t, or one bayonet and add 9 to the circuit?

By adding so many lights you can overload the circuit, particularly if the wire is old and not good insulation (black rubber for example) - and as has been said because you are underneath dealing with enough insulation space is a big problem.

getting wires across in a ceiling is usually done with 2 people with single core wire attached to yellow tongue then tie actual cable to wire and pull through. this is the biggest pain in the #### you have ever seen - it could easily take you or me a day or 2, more swearing than you can imagine and likely a fair bit of dmage to gyprock before the cables are all threaded as appropriate. Someone experienced, might easily do it in under half hour.

In this instance, I dont think you are paying the sparky for their ability to successfully connect 3 wires into a fitting without breaking them, you'd be paying for the experience that is required so that tricks and techniques they have discovered over the years, for getting cable from one point to another is applied to save you masses of time and aggravation. Just getting a cable down a wall is a PITA - through a ceiling space with small holes is another step up in terms of difficulty and patience required.

You would have to be inordinately stupid to actually give yourself a shock, or to stuff up such a difficult concept of active, neutral, earth (??), but it would be real easy for some insulation to fall back down over the fitting, which if you are really unlucky, will cause some fire, but more likely will have you changing a $6-00 globe every 2 months.

Given its bunnings, if it were me, I'd take em back, and look for a suitable flash fitting that simply installs onto the ceiling - you could of course go and buy a place with a manhole - but i think thats going a little too far for downlights!!

trying to be helpful......

[Bleedin Thumb]

Down Felixe Down,

See what youv'e gone and done now Crow Boy, youv'e gone and upset Felixe with your silly questions.:mad:


I have the same problems at my house, flat roof no ceiling space and I changed the lights to downlights (didn't know about the energy thing but I like dimmers which wont work with CF's)




Any how this is how I went about threading the wire etc



Firstly I got a phone book.


Then I rang an electrician and got them to do the work.

[spartan]

Also trying to be helpful......


Look I think that you find through searches on the forum that a number of people would be more helpful if there was a clearer indication that you had more of a concept of what was happening.

How do I wire this up and that is hard to describe in this medium - even though wiring a light is straight forward, there can be many situtation varriances that could get you into to striffe.

As pulse has suggested we are seeing more and more non professional rough ins - which is generally fine - this is what takes all of the time, getting that cable from one place to another....

If you were near me I'd come and at least have a look for free....

[Bleedin Thumb]

Sorry about the sarcasm CB. What you are attempting is against the law and you can't expect people to give you illegal advise in a public forum.

You should have realised that after you weren't getting any replies.

You state you have mates that are DIY so go ask them. That is the appropriate forum ie private conversation-not public discussion.

Better still get a sparky over tell him (or her) you have a small budget and that you want to do the rough ins. Ask them how to best do it but get them to do the final connection.
That way your legal and safe and your've saved yourself some money.
One tip.. use a stud finder to map your rafters first.

[Mr Crow Bar]

well thank you all for the feedback; some bureaucratic and others plain insulting.

i dont have much wiring experience is in i havn't put in down lights before and im not an idiot either. positive, negative, earth. lets all hold hands and say it together as we do the merry-go-round. perhaps i should have been hypothetical and sought a hypothtical response... my hat is off to you bleeding thumb. point taken and put eloquently for the first time rather than being badgering. thanks pharma, purse and spartan... felix, you can 'feel-licks' my tight ####:mad:. as for not getting many responses as has been mentioned we're into page two of bantering. that cant be that bad.

crow bar

[cross]

i dont have much wiring experience is in i havn't put in down lights before and im not an idiot either.

You may not be an idiot. But you clearly dont have the knowledge to do the complete job. Being an electrician myself, and has the others on the board would know, there are alot of little steps that may not seem important, and alot of factors to take into consideration when performing electrical jobs. Electricians do all this automatically, its what we are trained to do. Even if we were to describe how to do the job, there would still be things that you may not be able to do to satisfy the standards required and its plain illegal.

positive, negative, earth.

hmmm, dc.

Take the advice of those who have suggested that you call an electrician. Or if you prefer it nice and illegal, get one of your diy mates to come round and help you.

As for patching the hole. Buy yourself some polyfilla and a filling blade. Depending on the size, you may need a small peice of gyprock to cover the majority of the hole to begin with. Although if its just a small hole then the best method is to:

1. Clean the surface and remove any loose peices around the edges.
2. Use the filling blade to press the filler firmly into the hole, and scrap over to remove any excess.
3. Allow to dry, (a few hours, or a day if you have the time).
4. Sand back using a fine grade sandpaper.
5. Apply a second coat if needed.
6. Sand back again.
7. Undercoat.
8. Paint.

Hope that helps.

[TEEJAY]

I am getting a fair bit of electrical work done, on a budget.

I have had the electrical guy look at the job and the small amount of wire pulling I have already done whilst it is accessible - then burried under concrete

He will, when i am finished, connect the cable ends - he is reasonable and it is the cheapest way i can do it and it is safe and (has anyone mentioned) legal.

He's fine to inspect the wires and just connect the downlights and transformer- I have 8 lights at $30 each and transformer at $155 (400Va) but they are all weatherproof over a pool.

[b1ueshift]

Trouble is, because DIY wiring is illegal in this country, if you ask this kind of question, you will get more abuse that advise.

It's too hard to explain how to wire lights without a diagram. If you really want to learn, you should get an electrical text book. For downlights you are going to want to group several together on one switch. It's too hard to explain the wiring terminations for that without a diagram.

It's your house & your safety - if other people want to get angry about diy wiring, it's their problem. If you want to do it yourself, you should learn how to do it right.

[Rookie]

Chill it out Crowbar.

Everyone comes here for two main reasons. To share knowledge, such as those responding to you, or to seek advice, such as you have done. Sometimes the advice might not be what we want to hear, but never the less that's the advice. What you are being told seems to be pretty much on the mark, including that from those getting frustrated with your attitude. Apart from the legalities, if it is going to need diagrams and such, it is too complex a job and you should get a sparky. If you've never threaded cable through a normal ceiling space, yet you are going to do all the other tasks associated with this enclosed space, it is too complex a job and you should get a sparky.

Assume most everyone here knows pretty much what they are talking about (otherwise they wouldn't offer an opinion), and take what you were really asking for. The best advice we have.

[Mr Crow Bar]

well thank you all for all the feedback and i have to leave this here. i have learnt a great deal without even lifting a finger or even electrocuting myself. my verdict well this time will be to do all the cut ins and inserts and let a sparky do the connections while i watch on scrutinising his every move, then next time i will do it and bring in a photo for show and tell.

just on a final note.. any one know how to do DIY grenade launchers.

crow man

[TEEJAY]

just on a final note.. any one know how to do DIY grenade launchers.

crow man

Highly recommend you experiment with this one - I mean hey what can go wrong? I think it's legal

[wattlewemake]

Crow bar... mate....pal... I suggest that u take VERY good notes if you are going to do this by yourself in the future. I am a sparky by trade and would not give u any tips as I dont want to incriminate myself or b part of any illegal wiring.
A couple of q's tho. Is your house a queenslander? Is it older than say 30 yrs? Did you have the house built? If you answer yes to the first couple and no to the 3rd how can you be sure that the house wiring is in a good condition and able to take the lighting load?
You may ask why I ask these q's... firstly most houses built 30yrs + ago were not wired to take the amount of load that we use now( think how many air conditioners were around back then) The amount of appliances in a house has near doubled. You see a lot of old queenslanders go up in smoke(lovely seasoned timber) for that reason and the fact that most of the cabling is well past its useby date. The cabling problems are usually pretty easy to pick up with the right sort of tests and inspections. But that comes at a cost. But how much is your house worth? Is up to you that question...
As to your bunnies lights... good luck. make sure u keep your receipts as u will be visiting them alot for the warranty. As with most things.. you buy crap...

Best of luck with your lights.