+Buyers' expectations and sellers' obligations in multi-item sales of goods

[silentC]

That is inequitable, ambiguous and contrary to the normal order of 'first in, first served'. If a potential buyer has the funds available and is prepared to buy, then stalling or rebuffing the sale on the grounds that someone (friend or not) has expressed an interest but is still making up their mind is unjust.

I disagree. I think it's perfectly acceptable to say "my friend has shown an interest in it and I will give him first refusal but if he doesn't want it, it is yours". Anyone who tells me otherwise is welcome to shop elsewhere.

Of course, you then run the risk of the friend deciding he doesn't want it after all and then having the other potential buyers evaporate, but then you probably never had a firm sale in that case.

[Woodwould]

I disagree. I think it's perfectly acceptable to say "my friend has shown an interest in it and I will give him first refusal but if he doesn't want it, it is yours".

OK, I'll wear that.

[Rocker]

Starting a thread with the aim of absolving themselves of normal fair trading practice and laying out their trading protocol after the fact is a bit rich.

Woodwould,

I started this thread with the object of inviting comment from members, in order to establish what the general opinion is on protocols for selling through the Forum, so that, if the administrators deem it necessary, the guidelines for sellers can be amended, so that the sh*tstorm (Copyright K. Rudd) that erupted over my sale of goods can be prevented in future sales. I did not do so with the object of absolving myself from normal fair trading practice, since I believe that, as a non-commercial seller, I am not subject to the same legal or ethical requirements as a commercial business anyway.

Moreover, I do not believe that I have anything to apologise for, since I never agreed to sell to the people who now feel aggrieved that I did not sell to them. I simply put them on hold, and did not get back to them. As Kahlua Khan said, it is all about communication, and communication by PM with people who may be at work or otherwise engaged is an iffy business.

Rocker

[Wongdai]

I certainly agree that the issue is with communication in general. There seems to be a certain element of the Wild West in the forums when it comes to selling. Definitely not pointing my finger at Rocker.

I have had the experience here on WWF, where I have said I would purchase the goods, the seller agreed. On the morning I was due to pickup the goods he SMSd me saying that another forumite had showed up to buy an altnerative item, and also bought the one that had been committed to me.

I wasn't happy.

I still think that part of the problem is not having a probationary period before members can buy and sell, but I also think that stricter guidelines might help.

[Rossluck]

On the morning I was due to pickup the goods he SMSd me saying that another forumite had showed up to buy an altnerative item, and also bought the one that had been committed to me.

.

You've gotta laugh, don't you? As Jerry Seinfeld once said: "People! They're the worst."

[silentC]

My policy is to expect nothing of other people and that way you can't be let down. I always assume that I will have to call to confirm things or chase the other person around or go out of my own way. That way when people actually do make a courtesy call or do something for you, it is a pleasant surprise.

I think the key word here is 'expectations'. Maybe what we have here is a problem in 'expectation management' as we call it in the business. Be clear and up front in your dealings and then people cannot criticise you if your actions don't conform to their expectations. But some people will always complain, no matter how plain you make it.

I certainly don't think it's the place of the forum to impose guidelines on how sale of items should be conducted, beyond how they should be listed etc. I for one would not want to put myself between a buyer/prospective buyer and a seller in that situation. Not for free anyway

[Rossluck]

My policy is to expect nothing of other people and that way you can't be let down. I always assume that I will have to call to confirm things or chase the other person around or go out of my own way. That way when people actually do make a courtesy call or do something for you, it is a pleasant surprise.

I think the key word here is 'expectations'. Maybe what we have here is a problem in 'expectation management' as we call it in the business. Be clear and up front in your dealings and then people cannot criticise you if your actions don't conform to their expectations. But some people will always complain, no matter how plain you make it.

I certainly don't think it's the place of the forum to impose guidelines on how sale of items should be conducted, beyond how they should be listed etc. I for one would not want to put myself between a buyer/prospective buyer and a seller in that situation. Not for free anyway

I agree. The bottom line is that the onus is on the buyer and the seller to look after each other. For instance, there have been times when I've "won" items on ebay for far less than they were worth. On these occasions I've always given the seller the option of pulling out of the deal if he or she is not happy. In the end, with every transaction both the buyer and seller should part on good terms.

From what I've seen on the buy and sell section here, while the sellers generally behave quite well, the buyers start demanding rights that they wouldn't have elsewhere (i.e,., "I was first, ignore him", and "it's too expensive, sell it to me for half that" and so on).

I actually drop in there sometimes just to enjoy the theatre of it all.

[nick_b00]

Now that the dust has settled, I can comfortably and calmly admit I was involved in the issue at hand. I hope that I did not insult anyone (ie Rocker) with a PM I sent him asking for clarification, because that's not what I am about. If I did, I sincerely apologise and I hope that the apology is accepted.

What I did ask in my PM to him was for just that - clarification, and I feel that the issue here isn't about the forum imposing rules or dictating how members run sales, but the issue and lesson to be learned is better communication.

I feel that a few simple words of explanation or similar disclaimer before things get out of hand may be the solution, and may be the lesson for us all next time.

An example:

There is someone interested in the (item), but should that fall through then you're next in line (pending sale elsewhere).

Take out the underlined and its a totally different meaning. My impression was that the sale had fallen through, and therefore the item would be offered to me. Perhaps thats my naive fault, but generally I take people at their word in these situations (if someone was offering me a sheepstation for free then I would be more circumspect perhaps).

I agree part of the issue in this situation is also the large number of items for sale and the popularity of the thread (courtesy of the seller's contribution to the forums and great reputation). It makes it very difficult to keep track of for the seller.

Furthermore in many threads with items for sale, it evolves over days, not hours, has few responses, and as such first in first served is the only way to move the item on. I have bought several items this way from the forums without any problems, but the enormous response meant this sale was a very different beast from average.

Finally, in regards to buyers committing and then not following through - I agree that its a hassle that is frustrating and deflating. Unless there is a rating system (ie feedback scoring etc as per a popular auction website) or public naming and shaming, then good old trust and faith in people is what is needed. I don't think the aforementioned solutions are in the spirit of these forums. Those that have and will continue to do this tarnish the experience for the majority.

This is just my perspective on what happened, and more importantly how it can hopefully be avoided in the future, and an apology to Rocker. Good luck with the remainder for sale!

Thanks
Nick

[Rocker]

Nick,

You have nothing to apologise about. There was a misunderstanding that is now resolved, and we can both move on. As several people have pointed out, our difficulty has been that buyers and I have been struggling to communicate with one another using an imperfect mode of communication - the Forum's private messaging system. The lags invoved in this mode of communication almost inevitably lead to misunderstandings.

Perhaps sellers should post their phone number on the list of items for sale, when those items are numerous, and likely to generate a large number of responses, so that potential buyers can get instant feedback about the status of the item they are interested in.

Rocker

[robyn2839]

Now that the dust has settled, I can comfortably and calmly admit I was involved in the issue at hand. I hope that I did not insult anyone (ie Rocker) with a PM I sent him asking for clarification, because that's not what I am about. If I did, I sincerely apologise and I hope that the apology is accepted.

What I did ask in my PM to him was for just that - clarification, and I feel that the issue here isn't about the forum imposing rules or dictating how members run sales, but the issue and lesson to be learned is better communication.

I feel that a few simple words of explanation or similar disclaimer before things get out of hand may be the solution, and may be the lesson for us all next time.

An example:

There is someone interested in the (item), but should that fall through then you're next in line (pending sale elsewhere).

Take out the underlined and its a totally different meaning. My impression was that the sale had fallen through, and therefore the item would be offered to me. Perhaps thats my naive fault, but generally I take people at their word in these situations (if someone was offering me a sheepstation for free then I would be more circumspect perhaps).

I agree part of the issue in this situation is also the large number of items for sale and the popularity of the thread (courtesy of the seller's contribution to the forums and great reputation). It makes it very difficult to keep track of for the seller.

Furthermore in many threads with items for sale, it evolves over days, not hours, has few responses, and as such first in first served is the only way to move the item on. I have bought several items this way from the forums without any problems, but the enormous response meant this sale was a very different beast from average.

Finally, in regards to buyers committing and then not following through - I agree that its a hassle that is frustrating and deflating. Unless there is a rating system (ie feedback scoring etc as per a popular auction website) or public naming and shaming, then good old trust and faith in people is what is needed. I don't think the aforementioned solutions are in the spirit of these forums. Those that have and will continue to do this tarnish the experience for the majority.

This is just my perspective on what happened, and more importantly how it can hopefully be avoided in the future, and an apology to Rocker. Good luck with the remainder for sale!

Thanks
Nick

good to see rocker got an apology, forget the pasting i recieved

[Calm]

My 2 bobs worth on this is

Are the goods for sale or not.

If they are for sale then the first in with the money be it cash or direct debit then it is theirs.

If the goods are not for sale pending a decision from a mate then dont advertise them - simple really if you put them in the buiy swap sell area then they are for sale so the first in with the money gets them.

If you are waiting for a mate to make his mind up dont put the thread in until you have an answer.

What do you want your cake and eat it too - offer it for sale and if you get no offers hope your mate takes it or if you do get offers that helps you put pressure on your mate to hurry up and make up his mind.

I have no problem with the way you ran your sale Rocker (in fact i defended you on that thread) BUT this forum is not here to take members good nature and abuse it to your own advantage by pressuring a mate to make a decision. Give us some credit for being around long enough to realise what is going on. I think most of us have had enough dealings with the commercial reality of life that we can tell when we are being used.

Like i said my 2 bobs worth - probably 50 cents now with inflation

Cheers

[Calm]

............................Perhaps sellers should post their phone number on the list of items for sale, .................

I think the best/safest method of placing phone numbers , address's etc on the forum is in your Public Profile that way only Members have access to it.

There is not certainty that Members are all trustworthy either but they are the people you wish to deal with when you advertise on this forum.

Cheers