Battery powered? maybe not

[Greg Ward]

I've been in the battery industry for over 40 years.
A few points I consider perhaps of relevance

• I was on the electric vehicle association in the 1970's. It died and hasn't (to my knowledge) been disinterred.
• Lucas bought out electric cars around that time, they were vans using lead acid batteries..... There presence was due to the oil shock of the 1970s. There is no oil shock at present to generate a product cost effective or as useful as ICs, especially late model diesels that are more efficient than the Prius
• There are over 10 million IC vehicles in Australia. Even if EVs were available, it would take tens of years to replace these.
• Cheap ICs cost under 20K each. EVs will cost double
• EVs use electricity, it comes from power stations. Enough said....
• Everyone seems to forget that electric vehicles are in daily use... forklifts using lead acid battery power, thousand of them all across this nation. We are only centric about our own vehicle use.
• I saw the sodium sulphur battery plant in the UK. It closed I believe. I've read about all new battery couples, vanadium with UNSW, Ni metal hydride, Ni Cd................. Lead acid is still the only large scale battery possibility that is cost effective
• Nickel Cadmium..... vanadium. Not enough around to supply all the demand if we changed to EVs

In conclusion. I will go to my grave in (hopefully around 20-30 years min) and I will bet my eternal damnation against there being an electric vehicle fleet of any substantial quantity of any viable cost running around Australia on my passing.

Greg

[wheelinround]

Back in the mid to late 1960's I lived around Punchbowl area where a fellow converted his EJ/EK Holden 149 grey motor to steam he often had it at Sydney Motor Show. Manufacturers tried having it banded from the roads, there were right ups in Modern Motor and Wheels magazines. If I recall correctly it started on Kero he used it everywhere silent running to.

I stopped reading about alternative energy for auto's back in the late 70's when I read what Thatcher did.

Just look how we are sold vehciles now days compared to back then, I recall often MPG/KPH being spruked, now days its just 500/600ks on a tank of fuel we hear. that tank size could be 90lts or 45lts

As for batteries well they still have to be produced, replaced, and disposed of.

[kiwigeo]

I stopped reading about alternative energy for auto's back in the late 70's when I read what Thatcher did.

Just look how we are sold vehciles now days compared to back then, I recall often MPG/KPH being spruked, now days its just 500/600ks on a tank of fuel we hear. that tank size could be 90lts or 45lts

As for batteries well they still have to be produced, replaced, and disposed of.

Thatcher's water tax has yet to be substantiated....with all due respect it sounds like an urban myth pedalled on conspiracy theorist websites.

Vehicle fuel consumption is usually quoted on vehicle spec sheets as L/100km....Ive never seen vehicle specs that include consumption in kms per tank.

Modern batteries.....most of the components can be recycled. Even a large proportion of an old fashioned lead acid battery can be recycled.

[wheelinround]

Thatcher's water tax has yet to be substantiated....with all due respect it sounds like an urban myth pedalled on conspiracy theorist websites.

I never mentioned water tax, but simple News media delve would bring that up even magazines had it in.

Vehicle fuel consumption is usually quoted on vehicle spec sheets as L/100km....Ive never seen vehicle specs that include consumption in kms per tank.

I never mentioned spec sheets

Just look how we are sold vehciles now days compared to back then, I recall often MPG/KPH being spruked, now days its just 500/600ks on a tank of fuel we hear. that tank size could be 90lts or 45lts

Nor have I but listen and read advertisements that tell you you "Can do 500k's on a tank of fuel

Modern batteries.....most of the components can be recycled. Even a large proportion of an old fashioned lead acid battery can be recycled.

True but the energy consumption and pollution required to make and recycle these is greater than that created for fuel (unless of course we have oil spills LOL) Besides Fuel oil is still required to run the factories, build the machines, power electric stations or assist to.

We have Gas powered buses, electric trams, small electric vehicles when will we see the first semi-rig pulling 30t doing 100k's down the road. We have been playing with Solar powered vehicles now for decades try driving one in foul weather with a family on holidays towing a trailer.

Haven't honestly seen a battery powered vehicle do this I may have missed it.

Weight of batteries is a great concern

[kiwigeo]

I stopped reading about alternative energy for auto's back in the late 70's when I read what Thatcher did.

So if you're not talking about the water tax mentioned earlier in this thread then what specifically did Thatcher do back in the late 70's?

As for alternative powered semis pulling 30 tonnes at 100km..maybe if we hadn't let our railways run down we'd be able to move alot more than 30 tonnes at 100km for the same amount of fuel. It can be done even cheaper with an electrified railway (its why the Kiwis electrified their northern main trunk line a few years back).

[wheelinround]

So if youre not talking about the water tax mentioned earlier in this thread then what specifically did Thatcher do back in the late 70's?

I think I said "What Thatcher did" to me Thatcher ruined a whole UK motoring industry at the time. I am sure if your that keen to find the answer you can. That being in relation to the water tax.

[kiwigeo]

I think I said "What Thatcher did" to me Thatcher ruined a whole UK motoring industry at the time. I am sure if your that keen to find the answer you can. That being in relation to the water tax.

I actually spent an hour yesterday sifting through the net trying to find any reference to either Thatcher's water tax and steam cars with fuel efficiencies of 300mpg....I found a bit on steam car land speed records but nothing on a water tax proposed or actioned by Thatcher's government. I remain dubious. Anyway IMHO the onus should be on the poster of such questionable claims to put up proof of same.

You did say "What Thatcher did" in your earlier......now tell me how I'm supposed to read "what Thatcher did to me" from that? The statement was amibiguous and I asked for clarification.

[wheelinround]

I actually spent an hour yesterday sifting through the net trying to find any reference to either Thatcher's water tax and steam cars with fuel efficiencies of 300mpg....I found a bit on steam car land speed records but nothing on a water tax proposed or actioned by Thatcher's government. I remain dubious. Anyway IMHO the onus should be on the poster of such questionable claims to put up proof of same.

You did say "What Thatcher did" in your earlier......now tell me how I'm supposed to read "what Thatcher did to me" from that? The statement was amibiguous and I asked for clarification.

Now your twisting words I never said what she did to "Me" I wasn't there I was here enjoying my first years of working in the motor industry till she stuffed it.
I guess I should have put a . after my quote and started a new sentence to make it easy for you.

Statement ambiguous "What Thatcher Did" even I can relate it to Australia's present situation of Privatisation of everything by Labor, regardless of he political party.

Thatcher sold of UK Water .

[wheelinround]

I just did a search and found these not read them yet

The Truth About Water-Powered Cars: Mechanic's Diary - Popular Mechanics

water powered car : Give An Aussie A Go

Water-fuelled car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[kiwigeo]

Wheelin',

I'm not trying to take the pi**. Maybe it's just me (been up since 4am this morning) but the grammar in your post was such that it's message wasn't clear to me.

I think I said "What Thatcher did" to me Thatcher ruined a whole UK motoring industry at the time. I am sure if your that keen to find the answer you can. That being in relation to the water tax.

Cheers Martin

[wheelinround]

Wheelin',

I'm not trying to take the pi**. Maybe it's just me (been up since 4am this morning) but the grammar in your post was such that it's message wasn't clear to me.



Cheers Martin

Martin then may I suggest you get some rest no harm
I do recall the instance in the UK somewhere in an archive or motor magazines UK and OZ there will be reference I am sure.

[Rattrap]

For those who are interested in looking at the real electric vehicle story rather than the cock n bull spun by the oil companies & their lackeys check out this link;
YouTube - fullychargedshow's Channel
There are a series of youtube videos that are really well worth a look at, they give a good open, honest review of the different issues involved in the EV industry.
In the last video he does a revew of the imiev that is being release by Mitsubishi. In it he talks about a 30min fast charging station. Just to show how fast the EV industry is moving at, heres another article where they talk about a Japanese company that has developed a comerical charging station that can get you a 50% charge in 3mins. Thats not even time to take a pee!!
Japanese Firm Lets EVs Refill Faster Than a Gas Car - All Cars Electric
Please people, watch the videos & read the article then remember that the internal combustion engine has had over 100 years to get to where it is today while battery technoligy for EV's has really only been round for 10 - 20 yrs! just imagine what we could do in another 10 yrs!
- for now but u can bet there'll be more from me on this subject!

[wheelinround]

RT will check them out later
But for now

Just thought one power plug at a servo with 20 cars waiting for a 3 min recharge and a 5 min pee

On the train of thought how many power stations will it take to recharge say 10 cars in a recharge station, what will be the cost

[Rattrap]

When was the last time you saw a petrol station with only 1 pump?????
The fact is the fast charger is only for the few times you need to go further than a single charge from home can take you.
If you could fill your car at home every night just how often do you think u'd ever visit a petrol station?????
Try keeping a log of your daily KLM's traveled & i think most of us would be quite surprised.
Theres no doubt if everyone went over to EV's tomorrow our electrical infrastructure would crash before midday. But then ask yourself, just how long do you think it took to roll out petrol stations to every corner of the country?
Any new system of travel is going to need the development of infrastructure.
The only way that infrastructure is ever going to be developed is if there is a demand for it in the first place. What rolled across the country first, petrol cars or petrol stations????
Our need for electricity is increasing every day & with the advent of EV's there is no doubt it will rise, probably quite dramatically. But thats not an insurmountable problem, it just takes governments with a bit of backbone - sadly that is more unlikely than the roll out of an EV fleet!

[wheelinround]

When was the last time you saw a petrol station with only 1 pump????? Plenty around Tassie as well as back roads and often they are just diesel
The fact is the fast charger is only for the few times you need to go further than a single charge from home can take you. Tassie is such a small place but one trip from Hobart to Strauhn and I can't recall one servo.
If you could fill your car at home every night just how often do you think u'd ever visit a petrol station????? People don't just travel from home, thats the problem.
Try keeping a log of your daily KLM's traveled & i think most of us would be quite surprised. I used to, now days not so many but every Wednesday is a 90k round trip to turners club.
Theres no doubt if everyone went over to EV's tomorrow our electrical infrastructure would crash before midday. But then ask yourself, just how long do you think it took to roll out petrol stations to every corner of the country? Well over 50 years, now days the are removing them. Where we had 5 servo's in an area of 5k's we now have 3.
Any new system of travel is going to need the development of infrastructure.
The only way that infrastructure is ever going to be developed is if there is a demand for it in the first place. What rolled across the country first, petrol cars or petrol stations???? Steam cars and water towers.
Our need for electricity is increasing every day & with the advent of EV's there is no doubt it will rise, probably quite dramatically. But thats not an insurmountable problem, it just takes governments with a bit of backbone - sadly that is more unlikely than the roll out of an EV fleet!

So your advocating more power stations, will these be fossil fuel, nuclear steam, water driven or wind. If so will the Franklin now be able to be damed to supply Tassie's requirements.

Now consider what do we make the batteries with most new age electrical goods are using by products of nuclear source, to which we already have a major disposal problem.

The difference from when vehicles were rolled out using petrol to now is the population using them compared to back then, mass production.

I would love to see an alternative fuel/power used but it must be a situation of how families use it not single yuppies living in city enviro's, who can't even walk to the shopping centre, they get everything delivered. They don't have a life as we do visiting wood shows and wanting to bring home trailer loads of wood n tools, tow a caravan etc.