Fences & Boundary Fences

[FrankS]

I noticed a query about ownership of boundary fences from the U.S.
Well, I've just gone through a Qld. Small Claims Tribunal hearing about a boundary fence with a positive outcome as far as we are concerned.
However, the matter is not completely resolved.
My neighbour is unhappy with the results..he is in fact "spittin' chips". We feel he is likely to erect a fence (more like a Berlin wall), being a 1.8M colorbond wall some 67M long on his side of the boundary line alongside the existing boundary fence which is about 2M from our house.
My question is this: Would he still be 50% responsible for maintainance of the existing fence and would he also be totally responsible for the territory between the two fences?
Frank

[Honorary Bloke]

Well now Frank, that's an interesting question and of course, being a Seppo, I can't address it for Qld, but in most US states this would be the situation:

If the original fence straddles the boundary (that is, not completely on your property or his) he would still be responsible for his half. The new fence would not qualify as a boundary fence per se, but simply a "wall." And yes, he would need to take care of the bit in the middle.

Or, if he claims his new fence is indeed "the" boundary fence, than you could theoretically tear down the old fence and lay claim to the metre or so of property by using it for something (a garden perhaps). After several years the strip would revert to you through "adverse possession" and you could add it to your land deed.

But, as I said, all theory because you're in Qld. Let's see what some of your neighbors say.

[Rodt68]

You would think that regardless of another fence being erected the upkeep on the boundary fence would still need to be shared equally.
IMHO the real problem is that there doesn't appear to be enough info on what is the actual rules.
I am in the process of getting quotes to get some trees removed and then I going to look at the boundary fence but I don't know what the rules are etc. How do you find this out? Is it a local government thing or are there laws about it? Are the neighbours obligated to pay half etc etc?

Sorry for hijacking the thread but I am sure there are others out there that don't know either.

Cheers

Rod

[FrankS]

In answer to "hijacker" Rod.
Yes there are specific laws regarding fences...the Queensland Fences Act 1953 but updated and added to many times since.Go to Google and bring up Qld Attorney-General or Qld Fences Act 1973.

Cheers
Frank

[Sturdee]

.
My neighbour is unhappy with the results..he is in fact "spittin' chips". We feel he is likely to erect a fence (more like a Berlin wall), being a 1.8M colorbond wall some 67M long on his side of the boundary line alongside the existing boundary fence which is about 2M from our house.
My question is this: Would he still be 50% responsible for maintainance of the existing fence and would he also be totally responsible for the territory between the two fences?
Frank

Fencing, as you are aware is governed by laws and the approved boundary fence is the only fence both parties have a responsibilty about.

The fence that your neighbour might build is not a fence but a wall and because of its size and impact on you would need a council planning and building permit. At the planning permit stage you can object to the council who would have to consider your views. Talk to your council about it.

In respect of your question if the fence is built the answer is yes and yes. He cannot abrogate his legal obligations by being a dickhead and build another fence.

Peter.

[Sir Stinkalot]

My question is this: Would he still be 50% responsible for maintainance of the existing fence and would he also be totally responsible for the territory between the two fences?
Frank

I would read it that he is constructing a secondary fence on his property, which is off set from the existing boundary fence. He shares 50% of the cost and maintenance of the existing boundary fence and 100% of his new fence and the land between the new fence and the existing boundary fence. If the existing boundary fence is retained then you have no right to pull it down and claim the land up to his new fence ..... you don't pull down a fence and claim the land up to the wall of a house.

As Peter said if you really want to get his goat up have a word to council, even better if it is already up . If the new fence is the same height as the old then he shouldn't need a permit, but if it is higher he most likely will. Might vary in QLD. Perhaps the best line of action is to have a generic enquiry to council and then after you have the ammo then you can choose wether you tell the neighbour yours rights before, or after construction.

I assume that the neighbour wants Colorbond, but you want paling (or perhaps the fence is in good order and doesn't require replacement). You are responsible for 50% of the cost of a paling fence if the old boundary fence needs replacing. If the neighbour pushes for Colobond and you don't want to pay the additional cost you can agree that you pay 50% of the cost of a paling fence and the neighbour pays the balance to errect the Colorbond.

If the fence doesn't need replacement and the neighbour wants to replace it with Colorbond then it will be at their expense 100%, if you agree to have it replaced, but you will still be responsible for 50% maintenence.

[aussiecolector]

The best thing of cause is if you can get on with the neighbour. But I think it is too late for that. Some people make it their goal in life to be hard to get on with.

[Matt88s]

I've similar issues with my neighbor. My neighbor some years back put up a metal fence with cable on it next to the boundary fence. All great and wonderful for keeping elephants or such animals in or out but does little to keep anything smaller than said elephants such as our dogs in, their dogs out, the coyotes out, etc, etc, especially seeing how he cut the boundary fence in numerous places to facilitate the implantation of his line posts.

I'm currently in the mist of a total fencing replacement around our property and seeing how the old boundary fence is cut up and in great need of repair I'm also going to be replacing it.

Now I think he figured eventually we'd just pull the old boundary fence out and use his, metal pipe and cable fences kind of look better if there isn't another fence running along side them, , however cable fences don't keep small animals in and you can't really easily attach any kind of woven wire fence to them that will keep small animals in.

So the only thing I can see to do is to replace the old boundary fence which I have a feeling is going to cause trouble as he's always claimed the boundary fence to be his, I just ripped it out by the way. (he has no legal claim to it but he's not all there if you know what I mean)

We had a shooting in this area not too long ago over a new fence someone was putting in. I'm a bit nervous but I really don't know what else to do, I have to have a working fence, I'm not asking for 50% of the cost or anything, I'm paying for all of it out of pocket. The neighbor is not a nice guy though, over the years we've lost a lot of pets under mysterious circumstances after doing things he didn't like or making him unhappy, he's also bigger than any human should be, about twice as big as me and I'm no little fellow myself. I've been keeping my rifle in my truck with me and the sheriff on speed dial on my cell and just trying to work when he's not home, I keep expecting to see him headed my way with a gun.

[Jasey]

Sorry to revive an old thread but Matt88, if you are still alive, you need to either move or build a really big fence.

[weisyboy]

i am a fencer by trade and can tell you that.

if the fence is not on the boundry then you have no obligation to pay anything. and he still has to pay half of the up keep of the existing fence.

he has no obligation to maintain the peice of ground betwen his fence and the boundry. (it is his choice wether he mows his lawn or not).

if he is planing on replacing the boundry fence than you do not have to pay half of a colorbond wall but you are abliged to pay for half of a "boundry fence" witch used to be 4 barbed wires and split posts. and whatever he wants to do over and above that has to be done out of his own pocket.

his fence can be any height without a permit. the only needs to have a permit if he is building a structure that is clased as inhabitable. (more than 2 walls)


i hope this helps with your wories.

[bitingmidge]

You can download the Qld Dividing Fences Act here.

The answers to all your questions are here; avoiding conflict with your neighbour about trees and fences.

Sorry wiesyboy, I'm going to contradict much of what you've just said too![QUOTE=weisyboy;543923]he has no obligation to maintain the peice of ground betwen his fence and the boundry. (it is his choice wether he mows his lawn or not).[QUOTE]
Not quite true, there are health and fire requirements which must be met. If the area harbours vermin, a quick phone call to council will fix it, on the other hand if there is "a risk of conflagration" then council will also issue the necessary notices without hesitation.

if he is planing on replacing the boundry fence than you do not have to pay half of a colorbond wall but you are abliged to pay for half of a "boundry fence" witch used to be 4 barbed wires and split posts. and whatever he wants to do over and above that has to be done out of his own pocket.

Again, the kind of boundary fence that may be enforced is taken as the sort of fence typical of the area. If you live in a rural area and everyone else has a barbed wire fence, then that would be true, however if you lived in Knobsville and everyone had a rendered brick fence, then you'd be required to build same.

In making any order, the Magistrates Court or Small Claims Tribunal will take into account the type of fence common to the area and the purpose for which the adjoining lands are used.

There is no definition of a ‘standard fence’ in the Act. If most houses in your street are Queenslanders with picket fences, then it is possible that the court or tribunal might favour a similar construction.

his fence can be any height without a permit. the only needs to have a permit if he is building a structure that is clased as inhabitable. (more than 2 walls)

Nope, sorry. The BCA (Building Code of Australia) considers a fence of more than 2.1 metres (or is it 2.4?) to be a structure, and a building permit is required. In practice this rarely happens, but it is the law!

In some areas a planning permit is required for any structure over a certain height, mostly 2.0 metres for fencing.

As far as maintenance goes, well if you read the act, a "dividing" fence doesn't have to be on the boundary, but there are very specific processes to go through, and it sounds like you've been there anyway!

cheers,

P