How to most out of a Small bathroom?

[Ayesha]

Hi all,fficeffice" /><O></O>
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Once again I'm back for your advice,<O></O>
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We have a small bathroom that currently has a shower, bath and sink without much space left over. The toilet is separate coming of the laundry. <O></O>
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With resale value in mind in I'm wondering what is best in a small bathroom, a shower over a bath or keep them separate? Please note we are in a first home buyer’s area that attracts a lot of families.<O></O>
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The bathroom is also next to the master bedroom so I'm thinking about putting in a door to make it into a semi ensuite… is there any point to this when there is no toilet in the bathroom? and would the cost of doing this actually pay off.<O></O>
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Thanks <O></O>
Ayesha<O></O>

[seriph1]

Hi Ayesha - if no one has said so yet, welcome to the forum! You will find a huge amount of info here as well as vigorous opinion on just about anything



your question is a good one - though I feel we need some more info - small to one is large to another, so dimensions of the room and its layout would be a help, especially as you indicate there's room for another door. So my questions are:

Where is the house? (suburb)
How old is it?
Is it timber or brick, etc.?
What is the condition of the existing items, i.e. bath tub shower recess and vanity sink/mirror, light fittings etc.?
As above but paint and floor coverings.
What is your budget and how much work will you do yourselves?

That'll do for starters



BTW I live near Melbourne and am always happy to chat about such stuff if of benefit.

have fun!

[Sybarite]

Hi Ayesha,

I would urge you to incorporate the shower and bath - there isn't really a major need to keep these separate anymore (if there ever was in the first place). Put a towel shelf/cupboard where the shower is instead - this is infinitely more useful.

A bath is almost essential for a young family - and they definitely look for one when house hunting, as retro fitting a bath can be a costly exercise.

Some things to consider when designing the bath area is the actual size of the bath itself.
Too small is worse than useless, but don't make it so big that you run out of hot water trying to fill the thing.
I find "half baths" good only as a foot spa, but then I'm 6'2" and like to get most of me under water if I am having a bath.
Glass screens and enclosures are great for shower/ bath ensembles but think before fully enclosing a bath. How will the kiddies get washed if they are behind glass? (Propping the door open gets old really quickly...)

Fittings are equally important. I still see a lot of people putting the taps directly under the shower head...how about putting the wall stops between the shower head and the access point to the bath instead? It makes adjusting water temperatures a lot easier.
I also recommend the hand held shower heads with the rail to hang them on. If you do them properly they can be wonderful for cleaning the bath/shower as well as yourself!

Don't forget water saving is a bigger issue than ever. There are a heap of products being marketed that deal very well with this.
All of this is very achievable with economy as well as quality in mind, so overcapitalizing shouldn't be a concern.

As seriph1 says - more information would be needed for detailed layout commentary, but just by the sounds of it I would agree that if there isn't a toilet in the bath then a bedroom connection isn't a huge attraction, especially if it is the only bathroom in the house. Do you have a floorplan that you can post?

Respect, all.

Earl

[jmk89]

I agree entirely with Sybarite - put the shower over the bath, have a screen that means that using the bath is easy, and think about having the taps for the shower away from the wall under the shower head.

SWMBO and I did that with our bathroom - it was restoring the original layout of the old house we own. But to give you an idea of the job, the space we used had been converted by previous owners into a walk-in wardrobe! and we even managed to fit the WC into the space. On the shower screen, we used folding glass panels with chrome patch hinges so the screen can be folded against the wall next to the shower rose - it means that you can make the room look bigger than it is.

Some hints - don't put doors that you don't need - they just take up space. If there is a window just where the bath/shower is to go - put a metal frame inside it on the inside wall and then fill with "opaque" glass - makes an impervious barrier which is perfect for the shower and enhances privacy. It also acts as double glazing and so provides insulation(heat and noise). And finally - to make the space look bigger - use white wall tiles and a dark tiled floor and put mirrors on one side of the room (not just a small mirror over the basin - we put high mirror doors on 2m of wall cabinets ). We also avoided a vanity - they take up floor space and are really not very good storage for the things that you need in a bathroom. A wall-mounted basin with a chrome bottle trap looks very functional and keeps the floor space available.

Good luck

[GraemeCook]

Had a couple of beers with a real estate salesman who is also a registered valuer and while he very heavily qualified his views - "valuation is a science plus subjective impressions" - he made the following points:

* 1960's or earlier bathroom does not affect valuation as buyers assume they will replace it.

* 1980's or later bathroom if it looks tired or not professionally finished - deduct $5-10,000 from valuation as buyers reluctant to pull out "good" bath, toilet, etc.

* separate shower does not increase valuation, but shower over bath then deduct $3-5,000.

* If no toilet outside bathroom, or no second toilet, deduct $3-5,000.

* If bathroom sparkling, spacious, clean and has wow factor then add $5-10,000. Natural lighting is crucial here.

Similar rules apply to kitchen.

Cheers

Graeme

[Sybarite]

Hey Graeme,

That is really good information. Those "rules of thumb" make a lot of sense.
I often have customers wanting to replace their kitchens/bathrooms just prior to resale who don't realise that the outlay often doesn't return.
Many of those price concessions would cost the ammount one deducts to fix/ replace.
Of course this doesn't mean that a good "facelift" can't be relatively cost effective.

One question though (and I'm not trying to be a smart arsk). If a shower over a bath represents a potential devaluation of 3 - 5 K, then a seperate shower would mean that this 3 -5 is not deducted, right?
Wouldn't that be considered an increase in value?
As in; "If that shower wasn't over the bath you'd get $3K more for this place"
Or am I missing something here?

Respect, all.

Earl

[GraemeCook]

Earl, you are spot on.

The points he was making are that there are facilities that most people like, and dislike.

I tried to keep post brief, but he also said that cleaning for sale, eg high pressure hose on all hard surfaces - paths, brickwork, masonry fences, even laundry, garage, possibly bathroom, was advantageous. Perhaps some paint.

He also advocated removing all clutter, minimising furniture, etc to make it look more spacious.

He also said that rebuilding kitchens, bathrooms, etc immediately prior to sale was rarely advantageous, as you suggest.

Cheers

Graeme

[Cobber]

Im my current reno in my Cal bung I am turning the current original bathroom which is next to the main room into an ensuite. A guy came around and recommended I take away the corner hallway and make the ensuite bigger as it was a real tight squeeze as it is.

It will cost me more but I reckon it will add more value to the house and the ensuite would have been tiny and at some stage down the track when I want to sell (I think about this all the time so I get it right even though Im not selling) I wont have any regrets. I have spoken to a few people and many have said they wish they spent that extra bit of money for an extra room or bigger bathroom etc as later they regret it and realise it will cost them 3 times as much to do something about it now.

[seriph1]

Cobber - nothing is ever as cheap as doing it once, right, first time

I know this of course, from bitter experience re-doing far too many jobs in my East Coburg CalaBunga.

[journeyman Mick]

......................nothing is ever as cheap as doing it once, right, first time....................

I try to explain this to clients who want to do a "cheap" job, but do they listen? Sigh..............(I reckon "best value for money" makes much more sense than "absolute lowest price")

Mick

[seriph1]

Mick - I spend much of my working life training people to actually SELL on the benefits of their product/service/workmanship. it is a real challenge but I can attest to this: Each time a person has held firm and politely articulated the benefits of doing the work for the RIGHT amount of money in order to achieve the hoped for result, everyone has come out happy..... the appropriate margins have been maintained, to cover inevitable screw-ups, and the customers become advocates for the firm/product/individual precisely because the person selling the end-result had the courage of their convictions (AND produced the work as promised, of course). I am not so naive as to think this will always be the case as there are many finbacks (the term I use for con-artists) out there but I have enjoyed seeing the difference in the performance of businesses that have applied these principles........ of course, it means the firms need to produce products/services that honour the whole process as well.

I am guilty of asking for cheap jobs to be done, though over time have learnt that more often than not, the work is not up to scratch - I must add though, that this cynicism has much to do with paying good money for shoddy work in the past, resulting in a general mistrust of trades, motor mechanics and the like. A mate in Melbourne has a simple principle he applies to all the work he gets done - go in absolutely crystal clear about what you want, and pay decent money to get it done - where at all possible, have things in writing, but at the very least, make sure the person you are talking to has the ability or authority to ensure things are done or fixed as agreed..... he still has issues from time to time, but he gets excellent results. I met him when he needed two display cabinets built to house his collection of Essendon Footy memorabilia - he came to me with sketches and we worked together on the final designs..... it was frankly a joy and I went on to make other items and provide substantial paid advice regarding the renovations he was considering - saving him thousands of dollars through avoiding inappropriate works on his 100+ year old home.

Of course, these anecdotes are only valuable to you, me and people who value them - it seems we all need to go through a few balls-ups in order to learn. it does seem though, that some people never learn.

Anyway, totally enough of my ramblings!

have fun - and never give up trying..... one day you may be shocked (I know I would be!)

[Ayesha]

Hi there Seriph1 plus the rest of the crew!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
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Thanks for the welcome,<o></o>
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It was a great surprise to log on to such great and helpful replies...I had logged on the day after writing my post and after seeing no replies had given up! Patience is a virtue I'm still developing <o></o>
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No time at the moment to give you the info you require, thanks heaps for the offer and I will get back to you ASAP...by Friday as really busy with the little one this week.<o></o>
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We will actually be at least one- two years of doing the work...We really want to get our research right

Cheers
Ayesha

[sco]

Hi All,

Been lurking here for ages and 'bout time I posted. I'm currently renovating a small bathroom (2.3x2.2m) and just put the tiling in.

We originally had a shower over bath arrangement. SWMBO didn't want this in the new bathroom because of cleaning reasons. She got sick of the state of the floor of the old bath, but I suspect much of that was due to its scratched surface. There's also a lot more surface area that gets sprayed with water in a shower over bath so that's more work to get clean. Finally in a shower over bath arrangement with a shower curtain, there isn't much room to move if you don't like the cold shower curtain stuck to you on a cold winter's morning, especially given convection tends to suck the bastard towards you.

Next to the bath was a linen press. Which is handy as Sybarite has suggested. This is now gone. We're lucky enough that we can put a linen press immediately outside the bathroom and it won't look out of place (entrance to the bathroom is at a the end of a Queenslander's sun room, for you locals).

Replacing the bath and linen press we put in a Japanese soaker bath (Mizu from Reece). I'm 5'11" and can be comfortable in this and get my shoulders covered. Can't stretch right out unfortunately, but this is good enough. Next to that is a 900x900 frameless shower. We did this to maximise the perception of space. Tiling pattern flows from the floor area into the shower area to make it look as continuous as possible, again trying to maximise the perception of space.

On the opposite wall will go a largish DIY flatpack vanity to help make up for the loss of the linen press (1400Wx320D). Went with a semi recessed basin to maximise the perception of space again.

Finally in the corner is next to the vanity is loo. We elected to hide as much of this as we could behind the vanity. May build a caddy to hide this further depending on how it all looks. Despite the fact that a lot of the bathroom mags show a prominent toilet, I've heard that people don't like to walk into a bathroom and see the loo straight away, and agreed.

So we managed to fit a shower, separate bath, decent vanity and loo in a small bathroom. It's not all done yet, but so far it seems like it's coming together. Maybe some piccies once it's all done.

Cheers

'sco

[sco]

I've had a couple of requests for photos. Unfortunately work on the bathroom is delayed while I focus on getting the kitchen done. We've got a second bathroom so it's not a priority. Currently bath and tiling are done. Frameless shower goes in next week. Still got to get the loo and vanity installed.

To elaborate more on what I'm doing...

The bathroom is 2.3 x 2.2 metres. It has a door almost centred on one wall and a window almost centred directly opposite. As you walk through the door on the left (2.3m wall) will be the vanity. This is 1432mm long and 300 deep. At the far left corner is the loo which is centred on the remaining space. When you sit on the loo you face the bath on the opposite wall.

On the opposite wall immediately to the right as you walk in is the frameless shower, approx 900 x 900mm. Immediately next to this is the Mizu bath which takes up the remaining 1.4m along that wall. One wall of the shower sits on the end of the bath.

There were a number of little decisions that have been made to maximise space and the perception of space. They are:
1. 300 deep vanity with semi recessed basin to maximise floor space
2. Toilet is opposite the bath. Bath is 1400x800 which maximises the space immediately in front of the loo.
3. Frameless shower used to minimise the visual clutter and maximise perception of space
4. Floor tiling is continuous into the shower, so it doesn't look like a separate floor. Again the intention is to maximise the feeling of space.
5. Bath is smaller than usual to permit separate bath and shower.
6. Once the vanity is installed a large mirror that is the full length of the vanity and rising up to the same height of the shower will be installed. More reflection = greater light and more perception of space.
7. Tiles and walls are a light colour to maximise perception of space.

Hope that explains things a bit better. Piccies when I have something worth showing.

Cheers

sco