Out Of Date Shellac?

[EagerBeaver71]

I brought Some Ubeaut Hard Shellac on the 23/09/22, I was about to go and use it but then noticed the Best Before date isn't entirely clear. I don't want to start applying the stuff if its gone off already. Has anyone got any suggestions?.

[EagerBeaver71]

deleted

[burraboy]

Test it on a scrap...

[ubeaut]

Some questions first:

• Where did you get it?
• Is it Hard Shellac or white Shellac (dewaxed)?
• Can you please take a pic of the Best Before date and post it here?

I'll get back to you ASAP.

Cheers - Neil

[EagerBeaver71]

Some questions first:

• Where did you get it?
• Is it Hard Shellac or white Shellac (dewaxed)?
• Can you please take a pic of the Best Before date and post it here?

I'll get back to you ASAP.

Cheers - Neil

Hi Neil,

I'm an idiot, I just found out I brought off you guys in 2021 and got it mixed up with another order from last year!. I'll be putting in another order for some hard stuff today.

Thanks,

Sam

[ubeaut]

Thanks for that Sam.

For what it's worth... We have had a number of users of the Hard shellac say they used some they ad for well over 5 years and it was fine and no known problems down the track.

Also. We have the Hard Shellac because it's the base for all our friction polishes and The oldest bottle of Shellawax with the Hard shellac is about 25 years and still works or did last time i tried it about 12 mths ago.

It has to be the hardened that gives it it's longevity. It's way beyond anything I would have thought of even in my wildest dreams.

However, because it's shellac I always like to use the freshest I can get. That way if it goes wrong it's my fault and not the product.

Once it hits it's Best Before date I would be mixing it 1 part shellac to 10 parts Ethanol 100% and using it as a sanding sealer to raise the grain of timber after sanding.

Cheers - Neil

[EagerBeaver71]

Thanks for that Sam.

For what it's worth... We have had a number of users of the Hard shellac say they used some they ad for well over 5 years and it was fine and no known problems down the track.

Also. We have the Hard Shellac because it's the base for all our friction polishes and The oldest bottle of Shellawax with the Hard shellac is about 25 years and still works or did last time i tried it about 12 mths ago.

It has to be the hardened that gives it it's longevity. It's way beyond anything I would have thought of even in my wildest dreams.

However, because it's shellac I always like to use the freshest I can get. That way if it goes wrong it's my fault and not the product.

Once it hits it's Best Before date I would be mixing it 1 part shellac to 10 parts Ethanol 100% and using it as a sanding sealer to raise the grain of timber after sanding.

Cheers - Neil

Thanks for the Info Neil. If I try the 2 year old bottle I have on some scrap wood, how will I know if its gone off?, I've read that it dry's tacky?.

[ED65]

FWIW I used a large bottle of shellac to just past its 14th birthday. It was noticeable towards the end that it wasn't setting up as fast as it used to, but otherwise worked fine.

So, contrary to everything you read about old shellac supposedly never curing it did set hard, eventually. All the handles on my primary files and rasps were finished with this stuff and no matter how hot the day or how long I use the handle none have ever become sticky in use, and the shellac hasn't shown any greater tendency to rub off the arrises and corners than shellac made fresh from flakes.

[ubeaut]

Thanks for the Info Neil. If I try the 2 year old bottle I have on some scrap wood, how will I know if its gone off?, I've read that it dry's tacky?.

It may take a little while to dry maybe a few hrs not days. Will still need the 20 days to cross link but should be fine and hard in a day or so at the outside.

So, contrary to everything you read about old shellac supposedly never curing it did set hard, eventually. All the handles on my primary files and rasps were finished with this stuff and no matter how hot the day or how long I use the handle none have ever become sticky in use, and the shellac hasn't shown any greater tendency to rub off the arrises and corners than shellac made fresh from flakes.

Problem with old regular shellac is it never fully hardens.
eg: you shellac a side table. 6mth later you put a lace doily on the table and with a pot plant on top.
A couple of weeks later you take the pot plant and doily off to dust the table and low and behold there is a perfect doily imprint in the top of the table. Still feels hard and looks good and the doily imprint is firmly set in the top.

That's the main sort of problem with old shellac.

Cheers

[EagerBeaver71]

And would you believe it!, I found another full bottle which isn't out of date!

All I can say is you can never have enough of this stuff because its totally brilliant and I love it.

I've used the hard shellac on various projects now and have found that on red oak/white oak at least, the colour the shellac imparts is a beautiful light golden hue which pops the grain so delicately you cannot get that same effect with other finishes.

For example in my latest project:

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/building-table-bench-worktable-bench-build-250233?highlight=

I tried the Feast/Watson wipe on poly which I thought would look the same as my tool cabinet which is all done in
Hard Shellac:

IMG_8918.jpg

The result was alot darker and the grain popped way too much for my liking. Fortunately I only applied a very thin coat so I removed it and applied a couple of coats of Shellac, the difference was night and day!.

So my new motto is: You cant beat a bit of hard stuff.

[ED65]

Problem with old regular shellac is it never fully hardens.
eg: you shellac a side table. 6mth later you put a lace doily on the table and with a pot plant on top.
A couple of weeks later you take the pot plant and doily off to dust the table and low and behold there is a perfect doily imprint in the top of the table. Still feels hard and looks good and the doily imprint is firmly set in the top.

That's the main sort of problem with old shellac.

I shall do a test, now where did I put that lace doily?

Seriously though, I had taken the no-fingerprinting (mentioned by numerous users as a sure sign your shellac has gone off) to be a good sign. And presented for what it's worth: I've just compared the hardness using the pencil test and the results were no better than those published elsewhere for shellac, i.e. not that hard at all; but just in time I remembered how much of a factor the substrate is supposed to play and tested something I had on hand where the underlying wood wasn't softer than cherry but instead some good beech and lo and behold, it measured as much harder.

I tried the Feast/Watson wipe on poly which I thought would look the same as my tool cabinet which is all done in Hard Shellac:

IMG_8918.jpg

The result was alot darker and the grain popped way too much for my liking.

Yeah deeper tone and more grain pop are what oil-based finishes bring to the table, pardon the pun. This is exactly why in [some/many/most?] traditional workshops oil was frequently applied prior to starting with the shellac.

Your tool cabinet is a triumph, wonderful work!