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I don't know about any of you guys, but I am sick to death of hearing about how doomed we are from global warming.
I think we are going to be forced to pay a huge price for a token effort to stop the unstoppable.
I think there are so many lies and half truths or if's, but's and maybe's taken as gospel and fueled by scaremongering that our pollies have no choice but to waste billions on a futile effort.
Just my bitch.
Not just yours :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod@plasterbrok
Some day these clowns are going to figure out that the sun does not have a constant fixed output. Either that or all the SUVs, fossil fuel power plants, evil capitalist and all that do actually exist on more than just one planet in this solar system :D.
I've been watching this train wreck for some time and researching it on my own (the net is a wonderful thing) and the quoted research that supposedly supports this is so full of bad science it is utterly pathetic if not criminal and until very recently that has gotten no recognition *at all*.
It *seems* that the media has been finally forced to listen to real climate scientist rather than the clueless political scare mongers (without a clue but with an obvious agenda) and the "climate scientists" who's jobs depend on backing up their political masters (in other words all the ones making money off this scam). There might possibly be hope for rational and real scientific thought to prevail now, dunno.
How much are the (agenda driven) press, the scare mongers, feel good politicians and scammers going to cost us before they get stopped, not just with bad information on the global warming(TM) issue alone?
Sometimes I really think the real purpose of what the press and the politicians in total are now trying to do is to destroy not only civilization but mankind as well.
It certainly looks to me like insanity is contagious.
Sigh...
Squwabble, flitapooQuote:
Originally Posted by Fox3
The only reason we are hearing so much about it is because our pollies have it in the can't be bothered or to hard basket. The science is very strong and getting stronger all the time so I can't agree with fox3 in fact the focus is now more the extent of damage and the nay sayers have been pretty much sidelined in their futile and pathetic attempts of self denial. There is much that can be done that will help the economy by driving greater efficiencies in power use which specifically includes the amount of power we pour through our homes.There will also be some costs, but each time technology has given us more efficient means of production it has resulted in lower costs. Whats wrong about getting serious about sustainable energy, coal and oil are last centurys fuel, if we can produce power indefinately from renewable sources with out digging massive holes in the ground or draining every bit of oil we find surely that gives our childrens children the opportunity to live as comfortably as we have, with out the risk or one day running out of energy.
The debate should have already moved on to what we can do, and how to go about doing it. It is appalling that our own government rather than getting us into the forefront of ideas and creating economic opportunities for the country have decided to play ostrich and hope it just all goes away. Just my two bobs worth for the other side.
John.
I guess these evil conspirators invented photosynthesis to support their arguments and the clearing of the forests in places like the Amazon is just part of the natural cycle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod@plasterbrok
Sounds like you are talking about George W and the war on terror, truly p_ssing away billions of dollars and so many innocent lives. If this whole global warming thing is a farce (and I tend to doubt that), I would rather see billions of dollars invested in research and development and maybe help a world in environmental peril. If by chance the world is OK and this is just a waste of money (not), this is a chance to increase the world economy and create good jobs for all. Just my two cents.
Heather
Oh, and I have a little scientific background not paid for by outside interests... :~
After the total world devastation and mass carnage of Y2K, when computers took the world to the very brink of destruction,
and now the imminent certainty of global warming, with rising sea levels, drought, famine and world annihilation,
I think maybe we should prepare for the inevitable coming Ice Age.
(that is, of course, if we somehow miraculously avoid annihilation from bird flu, nuclear armageddon, comet strike or other popular dooms day scenario)
Just think, the Great Barrier Reef will become a new island. Land Grab!!!:cool:
.
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There is no doubt that the world is warming. Its a natural cycle through the eons that has been proven through the ice records in the antarctic.
So it is happening, its just that we appear to be accelerating it by a huge factor and this wont give us time to evolve or whatever to deal with it.
This was the beauty of the story "Crude" that kicked this off again on the forums. For those who watched it I would think most would suggest there was no scaremongering, just a presentation of very basic facts of X amount of carbon in the air before the industrial age compared to what is there now and what there will be if we pump up the rest.
Sadly nothing we or our politicians do in this country will make any difference other than making some feel good, some feel angry and others confused.
The change must be global but that wont happen.:(
Though warming IMO is still not the worry, its the global deaths due to famine that may occur after the oil runs out.
And though it may be of discomfort for us to hear about it, without doubt our young children or theirs will have to deal with it. :(
I don't worry about it. We're all going to die anyway. :cool:
I'm still waiting for the ice age that was all the go
when i was a teenager.
If you drive a car, or use electricity, heat your house or use a computer. You are contributing.
Don't concentrate on the Amazon, how about replanting the 80% of this country that was cleared, then worry about what's happening elsewhere.
"Whoa!" they cry, what would we eat?
Exactly.
We enjoy a standard of living that 80% of the world's population can't even aspire to. It's not them that's rampantly consuming. As the crunch gets closer, who will be better equipped to evolve, the child who currently has to forage for his shelter, or the one that throws a tanti because the local video shop has run out of Violet Crumble bars?
Survival of the fittest, not the wealthiest, the smartest IT person, or the best hairdresser.
Cheers,
P
:D :D :D
Well said bloodsucker :wink: :p
Well, there goes any hope for me. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by bitingmidge
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitingmidge
Biting,
My last tank of gas was in March, I know how to ice fish(inside joke), grow my own produce and can build my own shelter. Yes I use some electricity, (want to install solar and wind) for heat and power. I love to use hand tools for woodworking, gets me closer to the materials, but I will admit that I have a very well equipped power shop. This world will change, those that put IT issues and hairstyles will fall to the wayside. Oh, I do cut my own hair very short, no stylist here.
Heather :U
Be a bit hard under foot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blocklayer
Cheers indeed Peter!Quote:
Originally Posted by bitingmidge
I don't know about that - I've heard that you are fairly flexible.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
Well the globe has been warming since 1800 when the "little ice age" finished.
All the CO2 that man has put in the atmosphere amounts to 1/10,000 or the atmosphere.
Michael Mann's "hockey stick" interpretation of climate change has been totally discredited.
There was likewise a warming in the middle ages. That's how the Vikings managed to live so well in Greenland.
The world actually cooled post WW2. This might possibly have been caused by nuclear testing throwing tons of dust and junk into the atmosphere. This cooling continued until 1979 when it appears we got back into the warming phase, which had it's origins way before the industrial age.
It is scaremongering scientists who want research money various others lobbyists (what do you think Greenpeace is?) that promote this approaching cataclysm for the sake of their own income.
Any warming taking place has nothing to do with mankind. It seems the height of arrogance to me to assume that we did it and we have the power to change it.
Studley
Hey Heather,Quote:
Originally Posted by DakotaGurl
That's going to be a useful skill when the ice caps have gone! :D :D
Cheers,
P
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitingmidge
Biting,
Good point, but I will be able to use that tool for some other good use, maybe make a rug...:roll:
A major problem discussing anything technical with 1000 half wits is that the combined sum of their knowledge only adds up to that of any individual half wit.
I only half understood that.... what was the question again? :? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by BobL
he means he'd rather talk to 500 full wits than 1000 half wits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers
You're on the wrong side of the room I think. :D
I'll drink to that. :2tsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
The Australian Museum is running a series of lectures over the next 2 months (at least) with speakers from both sides - one of Al Gore's trained speakers and various professors of climatology & paleo-whatever.
I'd say that the evidence is insufficient to reach an accurate verdict at this time, but that is not an excuse for environmental rape either.
'Peak oil' will also have a fair effect on the alleged human industrial component. Just start practicing those horse handling skills:U
You can put whatever spin you like on globe warming and come up with whatever answer makes you feel comfortable.
At a conference on renewable energy a few years ago, I thought one of the most interesting talks was given by an insurance company representative. They are not interested in ideology of global warming but were just reporting the observed natural disaster rate. The rate of natural disaster in Australia has gone up significantly (I won't quote exact figures as I don't have a transcript or paper to reference) and the insurance industry was concerned about the movement of cyclone activity further south than previously recorded. This had great ramifications as buildings in some of the areas (south Qld & north NSW) aren't designed to withstand cyclones. The speaker alluded to the possibility of some of these areas becoming uninsurable.
I don't think the world is going to ever heat up enough to melt the ice caps. Quite the opposite. The ice caps never get above zero degrees and never will. Therefore they can't melt. Only the outer fringes will melt.
But with the extra moisture sucked into the atmosphere due to warming there will be increaced snow fall and ice on the ice caps!
Killing the doomsayers idea of sea levels rising by some crazy amount.
It seems to me the main problem comes from there being too many people. We breed like rabbits and pay no attention to what is sustainable. If we manage to halve our greenhouse emissions we will still double our population in a few years.
Australia's population just rose from 20 to 21 million. This million was faster than at any time in our history, including the post war job rush and the baby boom; it's unsustainable and is not being discussed.
So, reduce your emissions, tax them - do whatever you will - but until population is addressed and reduced we're doomed to 'self correct' by overcrowding, starvation, war for space or resources, or a new super plague. The worst result would be to survive until the resources are all gone.
Unfortunately if the gulf stream stops flowing completely, as it did momentarily a couple of years ago, the warm sea currents that drop near the arctic will no longer cool and subsequently the seas will rise in temperature.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod@plasterbrok
The earth came out of the last ice age as the isthmus between north and south america rose cutting off the gulf stream that between them and recirculating it up the west coast of the US.
So IF the edges of the Arctic do melt as you say, and its enough to cool the water so the gulf stream stops, like it hiccupped a few years ago, then the sea temperature will rise melting it even more. The ice also reflects some of the suns rays, so shrinking it also allows the temperature to rise again.
The Antarctic is a land mass with ice on it, if I'm not mistaken, and the Arctic is floating ice. So, if the Arctic ice melts, the seas will fall, not rise because water increases volume as it freezes and vice versa.
Now, if the Antartic melts, that could be another story. The edge of it being ice, the same applies. But the ice on the land running back into the sea, well, who knows.
Actually you can kill that one pretty fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod@plasterbrok
Jug of water put a stack of ice cubes in it. Mark the level. Let the ice cubes melt. Level will be the same, because water expands as it freezes.
So the level might rise a little if the world warms and glaciers etc melt though I doubt it will be much. Ice caps melting will make no difference at all.
We are talking about a centimetre or two
Studley
Studley,Quote:
Any warming taking place has nothing to do with mankind. It seems the height of arrogance to me to assume that we did it and we have the power to change it.
I think it is the arrogance of mankind to believe that we are somehow above nature and the biosphere and not part of it.
The science that mankind is the cause of climate change is overwhelming.
You should really have a read of this article at New Scientist.
It's OK Grunt, we're saved!!
The G7 (or is it G8) boys have announced today that they are going to reduce greenhouse emissions by 50% .... by 2050! :oo:
Cheers,
P
I feel it is time to give an alternative view on this "global warming issue" therefore I have posted the following extract:
You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature.
http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif
This shows that it is mans interferance which has caused our climate change.
For the complete document, and how you can make a difference go to: http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/
I must thank Al for the original link, which awakened me to this "pirateless tradgedy!":o
Thanks Midge, that's a real relief. I think I'll get that Hummer now after all.
but does that include the DVD pirates in china, etc???Quote:
Originally Posted by felixe
I'm not sure, but I did see in the news that China is aiming to cut it's greenhouse emmisions and become a leader in renewable energy, so maybe it all evens out.:wink:
*VBG* sorry Grunt there isn't actually any evidence at all. Just that the world is warming but as I said this started in 1800.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grunt
Lots of hysteria going around. I have not complaints against the discussion about living sensibly with consideration to the planet it's resources and how to maximise our future on it.
There is too much in the way of politics and hoopla with this whole thing. That's why we are building windfarms that are greenhouse gas emitters due the high capital that goes into them for minimal return. They only exist because governments fall over for the lobbyists.
We should go Nuclear here in SA not because it is Nuclear Electricity is cheaper than coal. Our coal is so cheap that will be hard to top. The reason SA should go nuclear is that we have so much of it and we should be selling it as high grade material rather than just dirt.
Studley
just make sure you dress like a pirate when driving it:UQuote:
Originally Posted by Grunt
I already do.
http://www.puplife.com/photocontest/tugboat-pirate.jpg