Advice on doing a 2Pac Finish

[Tegmark]

Are there certain woods that shouldn't be finished in 2pac automotive clear?

I'm considering 2Pac because it's durable & visually good enough for me. I like how easy it is too polish out too.

But since there is no smooth primer underneath but a rough surface, has anyone finished it on veneer or ply for a mirror finish? How did you deal with the excessive holes & defects that veneer & ply have?

At first I thought about simply applying alot more coats until it's filled up every small nook & cranny in the wood? Are there any drawback to applying alot more coats? Solvent issues? or the clear looking too dark?


thanks

[Simplicity]

I've never used 2pac on wood.
On cars heaps.
I would say you would need to grain fill first
To try and get an even flat surface then sand to at least 400 grit I imagine.
It is something of late I've been wanting to try.
So I would be interested to hear how you go.

[Tegmark]

I've never used 2pac on wood. On cars heaps. I would say you would need to grain fill first To try and get an even flat surface then sand to at least 400 grit I imagine. It is something of late I've been wanting to try. So I would be interested to hear how you go.

I'm not sure on what I should go, interior or automotive 2pac? Are both pretty much the same durability & gloss polished or non polished? Can 2Pac be applied over typical wood fillers & stains? I'm looking at wattle 7008 for brush.

[q9]

I'm looking at wattle 7008 for brush.

That's my standard answer for "what finish should I us?" questions. It's great, and applied well with attention to prep and being clean, gives a nice finish. Very tough and durable too. No matter what you do, you'll need extra brushes though.

[Rod Gilbert]

I have used a lot of 2 pac clear on various timbers I always use sanding sealer to fill the grain until you have smooth surface to apply top coat much cheaper than using 2 pac to fill and quicker because of the fillers in sealer. I always used mirortone acid cure and had great results with it when sprayed don't know about brushing. Some timbers require a lot more to fill the grain than others.
Regards Rod.

[themage21]

I've currently got a northane marine grade 2 pack poly waiting for me to finish making up some slats for a cast iron/timber bench seat rebuild.

I emailed and rang the manufacturer of the finish and they gave me a detailed procedure for applying the finish.

Long and short of it is that the 2 packs aren't that different, except that you eat a brush every time you do a coat (unless you use LOTS of acetone for cleaning) and that for a super-dooper-UV-stable-retain-the-grain-colour-forever-only-needs-recoating-every-5-years-finish, you need to put at least 6 coats down. So you use a lot of poly and a lot of brushes.

With the auto finishes, you'd need to make sure that they are formulated to adhere to timber - they might need a clean, grease and oil free metal to bond to chemically. The paint manufacturer normally supplies an excess of detail for most people with regards to how to use their finishes. Most people don't follow every last sodding point, which is why it can be difficult to get paint warranties honoured, as the paint system either hasn't been applied or maintained as per instructions. Then again, sometimes there is a good reason for those silly points, one would assume that the manufacturer wouldn't got to the trouble of specifying a third acetone wash or doing a Hare Krishna chant during application for the fun of it (nor testing it to make sure that the finish actually requires it).

Bear in mind that many spray metal finishes are very thin, so to build them up properly you'll be talking lots of coats.

Wattyl 7008 is a flooring finish, which means that it should stand up to a fair bit of abuse.

Wattyl also issue a handy dandy info sheet from their website:

http://www.wattyl.com.au/export/down...2509%2509%2509

assuming that that long chain of http address works.

Reading through it, it looks as though you can use over some fillers and not others. Well worth testing.

I'd hazard a guess that automotive finish is going to be metal focussed, lots of thin coats and hard as heck, so not really good for timber (too brittle).

[router]

I use veneer on a fairly regular basis and finish off the jobs by either grain filling or spraying with sanding sealer then sanding down to at least 400 grit and sometimes even more depending on the finish that i want. I then spray pre cat lacquer 3/4/5 coats and when that is done I wait 3/4 days for the lacquer to dry and harden and then cut the job back using wet and dry abrasive to attain an acceptable finish then cut and buff with cutting compound. It is extremely difficult to get a good finish by simply spraying more coats on to fill all the voids. If you keep spraying you cannot just fill the voids you are spraying the whole job, over time the voids will go but the finish will be very thick. 2 pack is also difficult to spray to an effective level and takes a lot of practice.
With sanding sealer, too many coats will also send some timbers grey so one needs to be careful.
Try this method on some timber and see what you think.

Good luck

Router

[Tegmark]

I've currently got a northane marine grade 2 pack poly waiting for me to finish making up some slats for a cast iron/timber bench seat rebuild.

I emailed and rang the manufacturer of the finish and they gave me a detailed procedure for applying the finish.

Long and short of it is that the 2 packs aren't that different, except that you eat a brush every time you do a coat (unless you use LOTS of acetone for cleaning) and that for a super-dooper-UV-stable-retain-the-grain-colour-forever-only-needs-recoating-every-5-years-finish, you need to put at least 6 coats down. So you use a lot of poly and a lot of brushes.

With the auto finishes, you'd need to make sure that they are formulated to adhere to timber - they might need a clean, grease and oil free metal to bond to chemically. The paint manufacturer normally supplies an excess of detail for most people with regards to how to use their finishes. Most people don't follow every last sodding point, which is why it can be difficult to get paint warranties honoured, as the paint system either hasn't been applied or maintained as per instructions. Then again, sometimes there is a good reason for those silly points, one would assume that the manufacturer wouldn't got to the trouble of specifying a third acetone wash or doing a Hare Krishna chant during application for the fun of it (nor testing it to make sure that the finish actually requires it).

Bear in mind that many spray metal finishes are very thin, so to build them up properly you'll be talking lots of coats.

Wattyl 7008 is a flooring finish, which means that it should stand up to a fair bit of abuse.

Wattyl also issue a handy dandy info sheet from their website:

http://www.wattyl.com.au/export/down...2509%2509%2509

assuming that that long chain of http address works.

Reading through it, it looks as though you can use over some fillers and not others. Well worth testing.

I'd hazard a guess that automotive finish is going to be metal focussed, lots of thin coats and hard as heck, so not really good for timber (too brittle).

Thanks, my knowledge is auto 2pac works well on metal with 2pac primer under it, & on bare hard wood. A grain filler is needed on some wood as the spray version is very thin. For some smaller projects I much prefer a brush over spray, for if in the end the results will be the same polished to high gloss. Not sure if you can just use thinners to clean a fine varnish style brush? Didn't expect them to get eaten by 2pac.
Off the spray would be better if you didn't want to cut & polish. Maybe that's a good idea as things like dust, oxidation will degrade a finish quicker if it's cut & polished. I don't really know.


EDIT: Forgot to add, is there much difference in durability & high gloss Pre-Cat Lacquer vs standard 2pacs? I think not at all.

[artful bodger]

You don't see many people spray automobiles with furniture grade lacquer. So why spray furniture with car lacquer?
Strangely enough though an automotive paint shop once told me that a particular brand single pac acrylic lacquer was excellent on timber. I used it on huon pine and it was anything but excellent.
The 2 pac furniture lacquer that I have used a lot is sprayed over a sanding sealer for open grain timbers. Gives a great finish but is rather expensive.
There are good single pac varieties available too which are simpler to use.

[Tegmark]

Id like to finish a car in a French polish look.

Anyway before I try some 2pac polyU with brush. I wonder if it's a good idea to just use a cheap disposable brush to build up the thickness? Then for the last coat just use a good varnish brush. As for the cleaner I think I will just have to experiment with either strong lacquer thinners or acetone both at bunnings. As long as my purdy white swan can be useable after 5-10 cleans, as they cost me $40. Lacquer thinners seems fine with oil based polyU, not sure with 2pack.

[BobL]

This is 3 coat of 7008 on an Oregon kitchen bench top.
I didn't want a glossy finish so I cut back the last coat with 800 grit wet and dry
It's not really designed to build up coats so you will need LOTS of coats to get any sort of depth with it.

This kitchen is 20 years old and its the 2nd re-coating of the bench tops - yes the floor needs doing.

KitchPanorama1p.jpg

[Tegmark]

This is 3 coat of 7008 on an Oregon kitchen bench top.
I didn't want a glossy finish so I cut back the last coat with 800 grit wet and dry
It's not really designed to build up coats so you will need LOTS of coats to get any sort of depth with it.

This kitchen is 20 years old and its the 2nd re-coating of the bench tops - yes the floor needs doing.

KitchPanorama1p.jpg

Wouldn't sanding back with only 800 expose the wood & allow all kinds of things to grow in a kitchen environment?

When you say lots of coats to get depth, how many? Wanting to know how this compares to oil based PolyU. That gets depth by about 6+ coats not thinned, depending on the grain of wood.

[Tegmark]

In regards to 7008.
1- I'm not sure about the re coat time, does this mean that during this window of time the top coat merges with bottom before the bottom completely cures? I'm confused as the sanding time is much smaller.


2- Long after the re coat time, can another coat be added provided the bottom is sanded back or is it advised to start over again removing the whole clear coat?


3- With Pot Life, what does 8hrs standard & 1hr fast mean in terms of mixing ratios?

[BobL]

Wouldn't sanding back with only 800 expose the wood

I thought that would be the case too because the surface is not that flat but it turns out would take hours to cut through 3 hardened coats of 7008 with plain 800 grit by hand. I only did it to take a bit of the gloss off. What happens on a kitchen bench over time is it loses it's gloss and gets scratched etc in high use areas so I reckon it looks worse when it's half glossy and half matt.

& allow all kinds of things to grow in a kitchen environment?

Nope - wood is naturally anti bacterial - it's in fact more anti bacterial than plastic, or any finish.
In the area around the coffee machine the bench top gets quite badly dinged from dropped cups and porta-filters,constantly wet/damp from hot water drips etc.
Some of the dents end up ~1 mm deep. I sanded as may out as I could with a belt sander before recoating.

When you say lots of coats to get depth, how many? Wanting to know how this compares to oil based PolyU. That gets depth by about 6+ coats not thinned, depending on the grain of wood.

All I can say is after three coats it looked like one coat of PU to me. But of course I'm not really lathering it on to get depth.

[BobL]

In regards to 7008.
1- I'm not sure about the re coat time, does this mean that during this window of time the top coat merges with bottom before the bottom completely cures?

Probably

I'm confused as the sanding time is much smaller.

If you let it fully cure it's like a rock and sanding becomes much harder - hence the belt sander to get the dents out of the surface.

2- Long after the re coat time, can another coat be added provided the bottom is sanded back or is it advised to start over again removing the whole clear coat?

Complete removal is only for previous coats other than 7008.
The only trouble i had it attaching to an old coat was a couple of spots that were not clean.
When I recoated I did attack the old coat pretty savagely with a belt sander but that was just to get the dents out otherwise in not dented areas I just sanded it until it was smooth

3- With Pot Life, what does 8hrs standard & 1hr fast mean in terms of mixing ratios?

Sorry can't help you there.