Wall Frames & Plaster - Noggin placement

[Pedal Harder]

When framing up a wall - should a noggin support the join between the wall sheets - i.e 1200mm from the floor where the 2 horizontal sheets meet? My studs are at 500 centres and have 2 nogs between the top & bottom plates, but not at where the sheets meet. Without them will the join crack? Hope this makes sense.

Cheers

[Pedal Harder]

Pic added

[silentC]

No it's not necessary if you run the sheets horizontally and use the recommended jointing technique.

Some people say it's actually a bad idea to have the nogs at the join. I've only ever done it that way and have had no problems. I reckon it gives the joint a bit of support against people leaning against it.

[Pedal Harder]

Thanks SilentC - so you are saying the correct jointing technique being the paper tape and coatings rather than back blocking etc? If I push on the sheets at the join midway between the studs, I can get a few mm flex of the sheet (i have not taped or anything as yet - just hung sheets). Apprec your advice. I have not glued lower sheet so could unscrew and re-nog, then refix if I had to....

[silentC]

the correct jointing technique being the paper tape and coatings rather than back blocking

Yep. Once you joint then you should not get any noticeable flex. Go to the CSR site and download the Gyprock installers guide. It has everything you need to know. www.csr.com.au and follow your nose. I've got a copy on my hard disk if you can't find it but it's too big to attach to the post.

[rod@plasterbrok]

You don't need the Nogs on the join.

As mentioned it is better that the noggin is not on the join as they can tend to kick out sometimes causing the sheet to buckle. More often than not noggins are of a smaller section than the stud. So they won't interfere with the lining board. The noggin is there to provide strengh to the wall, not support for the lining.

When the join has been finished it will have close to the same strengh as the board. Paper tape is certainly better than fibre glass tape. Paper tape is stronger and reduces the possibility of cracking. The down side is it is harder for the handy man to use. The CSR site will tell you what to do but not neccessarily HOW.

Back blocking of joins is only required on ceilings.

Cheers

Rod Dyson

[Bluegum]

good post rod. I used the fibre glass tape on my last job. I have a roll of the paper tape as well, but the bloke helping me reckon it wasn't as good as the fibre glass stuff.

[Pedal Harder]

Thanks Gents - am very pleased to hear I don't need to go back to the nogs.... so the next question - what is better - normal paper tape or the self adhesive stuff I have heard about?

Cheers

[rod@plasterbrok]

The self adhesive paper tape works like a postage stamp. It is called wet and stick. In my book it has only one useful purpose, and that is to repair cracks in existing plaster joins. The reason for this is, if you have any gaps not pre filled you will eventually get bubbles in your work as there is no body behind the tape, like it would be if you used normal paper tape. It sort of defeats the purpose if you have to go around and pre fill every gap and nail hole. It can also bubble at nail holes if not completly beded into the depression.

For fixing an existing crack in a plasterboard ceiling Its fantastic. The reason is, it is a flat surface you are fixing it to, it adheres to a painted surface well and gives you the flatest repair possible. Ie. normal paper tape will have a small ammout of base coat under it meaning you have more of a bump to fill out.

Cheers

Rod Dyson

[silentC]

As mentioned it is better that the noggin is not on the join as they can tend to kick out sometimes causing the sheet to buckle.

Do you mean after the plaster is hung? The nogs should be straightened by the chippy before the sheets are hung. If nogs are going to cause a problem through movement down the track, they will do so no matter where they are in the wall.

I've heard of smaller nogs, say 75mm in a 90mm wall, being used but have yet to see it. It would make the job a bit more fiddly I suppose because you would need two sizes and you can't use the offcuts of 90mm.

I've actually been told once in the past by a plasterer to put the nogs at 1200mm and most chippies I've worked with always nog at 1200mm by default. If you buy pre-fab frames, they will be nogged at 1200 unless you ask. Otherwise you need twice as many noggings. I guess it's a preference thing.

[duckman]

I've heard of smaller nogs, say 75mm in a 90mm wall, being used but have yet to see it. It would make the job a bit more fiddly I suppose because you would need two sizes and you can't use the offcuts of 90mm.

I've actually been told once in the past by a plasterer to put the nogs at 1200mm and most chippies I've worked with always nog at 1200mm by default. If you buy pre-fab frames, they will be nogged at 1200 unless you ask. Otherwise you need twice as many noggings. I guess it's a preference thing.

Using noggings one size smaller than the wall frame is a common practice and a very good one. I've been a chippy for more than 30 years and that is how the majority of builders for whom I've worked have done it and how I as a builder have always done it.

Using the narrower timber for nogs makes straightening the walls easier and faster because we don't have to plane off the noggings.

In the days of OBHW frames, we used 4x1/12 inch and 4x2 inch timber for the walls and 3x1 1/2 for the noggings and eaves trimmers. Now its pine and 90mm and 70mm respectively.

If there are enough off cuts of 90mm to use as noggings through out the frame, then someone stuffed up big time on ordering the 90mm. There are of course some builders who can't be bothered ordering a different size for the nogs or are making so much money they just don't care. I'm not one of those.

As for the height at which to place the nogs, unless an engineer stipulates otherwise, they go in at a maximum of 1350mm centres. If you've seen them at or around 1200mm centres then that should have been in 2400mm (nom) high walls. If they were 2700mm (nom) walls then the spacing could have been the max of 1350mm. Over 2700mm then one or more extra rows are required.

HTH,

Mark.