French polishing with Hard Shellac

[Brian Burns]

Hello All,

I make classical and flamenco guitars here in northern California. Having just discovered Hard Shellac, we're trying to figure out an economic way to get some to the US. Guitars are subject to some pretty hard usage, especially flamencos, and it looks very promising as a finish.

I use the French polish/padding method of application, and was wondering if Hard Shellac works like regular shellac when using these methods. Also, I would like to hear of anyone's experience with finishing stringed instruments with Hard Shellac.

Many thanks,

Brian Burns

[Iain]

I can't help with the finish but I am sure that Neil (the owner of this product and owner of this BB) can supply in bulk.
I have used hard shellac in my kitchen and find it is a hard wearing finish although it takes about a month to reach full hardness, I also dilute 5:1 with 100% metho.
I have a Fleta that I need to polish and I have been tossing the idea of hard shellac around, for a classical guitar it would probably be OK but I have doubts about flamenco due to the aggresive action of the player with a lot of sound board contact.
Later this year I intend to build a 24 course lute, as someone pinched my last one and I intended using hard shellac as the lute is a soft action instrument.
Hope this helps a little.
Application in my case was with a soft brush and left to dry.

[Brian Burns]

Hello Iain,

If that's a genuine Fleta it's probably worth a lot. It might be better to have it appraised and have the appraiser tell you whether it would be de-valued by refinishing. I wouldn't be suprised if it were varnished, as Fleta came from a bowed instrument background.

As for flamenco wear, no finish is going to protect against fingernails contacting the sound board. I do what I can by installing tap plates (golpeadors), but outside of that there isn't much that can be done. The problem I'm trying to cure is sweat on the lower bout when the guitar is held in traditional flamenco position. The player's armpit is right up against the guitar, and regular shellac just melts away in that area.

Yes, I've talked to Neil, and the problem is flammability of the bottled shellac. It can be shipped in special containers, but it's an expensive proposition. There is some hope that an American company will begin carrying it.

Cheers,

Brian

[Iain]

Thanks for your response, I am not that conversant with flamenco instruments but my Fleta is the genuine article purchased from a bloke called John Williams after I attended one of his master classes.
I already have some idea of it's value.
My other guitars are Maton (locally made) and Rimarez which I picked up in Spain about 15 years ago (we don't discuss the Yamaha).
Maton use a two part finish on their guitars but will not reveal what it is, having said that they have not manufactured a decent classical for about 15 years now since the original owner of the company sold out and the nephew took over, the guitars look nice but are quite lifeless.
You obviously know more about finishing than I and it seems that laqcuer could be the way to go.
I really have not investigated hard shellac that thoroughly but will conduct some tests to see how it withstands sweaty armpits or whatever.

[Brian Burns]

I talked with an American expert today who said that the trouble with shellac additives is that they prevent 100% "burn back", which allows witness lines between coats. Have you had any of that sort of problem with "Hard Shellac"?

John Williams, ah yes, I've heard of him--plays a bit of classical guitar if I remember right. Flamenco guitar has such a poor reputation among classical players because there is so much mediocre stuff in circulation. I'll send you a CD of my favorite player if you will email me your mailing address. My current favorite classical guitar CDs are by Stefan Grondona--they are my shop background music everyday.

As for lacquer, the fumes are so noxious that if I never use it again it will be too soon. The beauty of French polishing is that it can be a really thin finish, as you build it up to a polish rather than abrade it down to a polish. A typical sprayed lacquer finish is double the thickness of a French polished one, and being softer in addition to being thicker, it damps the treble. On a steel string guitar it's fine, because you've got bags of treble, but not so with a nylon string instrument.

Brian Burns

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[Iain]

I have not encountered the witness lines you speak of on the hardwood in the kitchen, I diluted the hard shellac liberally and applied it quickly with a brush and came up with a nice even finish.
For memory I think I put on about 5 coats, it dries in a matter of seconds leaving a tacky finish which dries within an hour.
Neil assures me that the polymerised shellac continues to harden over the next month and my kitchen finish is fairly hard but it only door and wall surfaces so not subject to any wear.
As for flamenco artists we had Paco Pena out here a few times with John Williams, I must admit I am not a great fan of flamenco nor John Williams for that matter, tends to be technically perfect but plays with no expression.
My favourites are Julian Bream, Narcissi Yepes who also plays Vihuela (sp) well and I have a few of their recordings.
I used to play a lot and teach and did a series on the ABC on the history of classical guitar many years ago but after receiving head injuries in a car accident I lost my cadence and play very little now.
I can still manage a little Bach, who I am convinced hated string players with the gymnastics involved, and I enjoy anything Gaspar Sanz which is relatively easy to play.

[Gingermick]

the gymnastics involved, and I enjoy anything Gaspar Sanz which is relatively easy to play.[/QUOTE]

Just out of interest and totally off topic, What are your thoughts on "Friday night in San francisco" Mclaughlin,Dimeola,DeLucia?
I read somewhere that some classical/flemenco devotees weren', impressed
mick

[Iain]

Can't say of heard of it/them, but then I don't follow flamenco.

[Gingermick]

Its not flamenco. Jazz would probably be a closer description.
But worth a listen. (incredible skill, one would break ones fingers trying to play most of it)