Speed Camera Fines

[silentC]

Speeding fines may come to sudden halt

Great, so now the NSW State Govt is going to spend millions defending speed camera fines and then, once they lose, paying back all the fines. I think it's time to relocate the Victorian border...

[Stuart]

Speed cameras....operated by Tenix under contract, vs honest policing.........hmm. decisions decisions.





(I'm not a Tenix fan if anyone was wondering - even to the extent that I turned down a $70k job offer back in 2002.)

[DanP]

Another Judge who wants his name in the paper for a bit... Great. Going by his opinion, no speed infringement would be valid. All speed measuring devices are calibrated annually, a legislated requirement. I doubt this is any different for cameras.

Dan

[silentC]

While we're on the subject, what's your opinion on this:

We have both 60kph and 50kph zones in town. When you enter Pambula down the highway from Merimbula, you pass a 50kph sign. When you enter Pambula from Pambula Beach, you pass a 60kph sign and about a km down the road you pass a 50kph sign. All good, except before the 50 sign, there are two side streets that come off the Pambula Beach road and connect to the highway on the town side of the 50 sign. So you are going from a 60 zone to a 50 zone without any signs.

In fact, I could drive from P. Beach, take the first right before the 50 sign, turn left onto the highway and drive right through Pambula blissfully unaware that I was now in a 50 zone. So if Mr Plod is sitting on the highway and he pings me for 10k over the speed limit, would it stick?

[ian]

While we're on the subject, what's your opinion on this:

We have both 60kph and 50kph zones in town. When you enter Pambula down the highway from Merimbula, you pass a 50kph sign. When you enter Pambula from Pambula Beach, you pass a 60kph sign and about a km down the road you pass a 50kph sign. All good, except before the 50 sign, there are two side streets that come off the Pambula Beach road and connect to the highway on the town side of the 50 sign. So you are going from a 60 zone to a 50 zone without any signs.

In fact, I could drive from P. Beach, take the first right before the 50 sign, turn left onto the highway and drive right through Pambula blissfully unaware that I was now in a 50 zone. So if Mr Plod is sitting on the highway and he pings me for 10k over the speed limit, would it stick?

Silent
There are two "default" speed limits in NSW
50 km/h in built-up areas (which IIRC is defined as kerb & gutter and/or street lights), and
100 km/h everywhere else
everthing else is a posted limit, i.e. there's a sign

So in your example is the area "built-up" ? The street lights might only be 40W fluros every 100 to 200 metres or so.


ian

[DanP]

Silent,

The speed limit on a sign applies to the length of the road it is posted on, unless another speed sign is posted or it says "50 Area", In which case it applies to a network of roads and each entry/egress point must have "50 area" and "End 50 Area" signs posted.

The law on speeds is that if you are on a road, regardless if you have passed a speed sign or not, you are assumed to know the speed limit. In built up areas, this is easy. If you don't know the speed limit, you should be doing 50. So put simply, yes, it would stick.

A built up area in Victoria is an area where there are buildings on land next to the road, or, there are street lights at intervals not greater than 100mtrs for a distance of at least 500mtrs or if the road is shorter than 500mtrs, the whole road.

Dan

[ian]

Dan
While I understand and share your frustration, and don't like the idea that those who can afford the "right" lawyer can get off, I also appreciate that "rules of evidence" must be adhered to because it's those rules that provide some protection to those individuals the State would like to set-up. A classic example are the "Guilford Seven"

As to this case, using legislation to define something a scientific instrument doesn't make it so and if the RTA can't demonstrate ("prove beyond reasonable doubt") that their speed cameras work as advertised then, tough. Afterall it wouldn't take much effort to send a properly instrumented police car through each camera every so often to check that the speed recorded by the camera matched the car's recorded speed.


ian

[DanP]

Definition of built up area from RTA Road Users Handbook.

Built up area

– in relation to a length of road, means
an area in which there are buildings on land next
to the road, or there is street lighting, at intervals
not over 100 metres for a distance of at least 500
metres or, if the road is shorter than 500 metres,
for the whole road.

[DanP]

While I understand and share your frustration, and don't like the idea that those who can afford the "right" lawyer can get off, I also appreciate that "rules of evidence" must be adhered to because it's those rules that provide some protection to those individuals the State would like to set-up. A classic example are the "Guilford Seven"

Mate, This is nothing to do with rules of evidence or the cost of the appeal or conspiracies about the Govt setting people up. It is simply a judge making a crap decision (again).

As to this case, using legislation to define something a scientific instrument doesn't make it so

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but if the legislation says it is a scientific instrument, then the court is bound to call it a scientific instrument.

if the RTA can't demonstrate ("prove beyond reasonable doubt") that their speed cameras work as advertised then, tough.

Again, this is not about whether the thing is accurate or not, it is about how often it is calibrated. My handheld radar, laser or moving mode radar is calibrated once a year, which is good enough for any court, how is that different to a speed camera.

Afterall it wouldn't take much effort to send a properly instrumented police car through each camera every so often to check that the speed recorded by the camera matched the car's recorded speed.

You're kidding aren't you. Do you know how many speed camera's there are? What a rediculous waste of police resources. When they are calibrated they go off to an independant institution, RMIT in Victoria and are tested and sealed. The operator checks them for accuracy each day. Why isn't this enough. Seems stupid to use it for one day, send it off for a week or two to be calibrated, use it for one day etc. What a joke time for judges to get in the real world.

Dan

[swiftden]

In SA our hand held lasers and radars are calibrated every 12 months and this is good by the judges. I do not know abou the cameras as the police force does not operate them . they are run by a contract company .

[Doughboy]

SilentC

Are you a native of Pambula?

Or do you just know about the tranquil little town that it is..

Pete

[ozwinner]

We have just had a good one in Whittlesea.

The 60 kms zone south down Plenty Rd has just been lenghtened by 1km, there are no houses, no street lights, it is just empty paddocks both sides.

Everyone is assuming its just for revenue raising.

Al

[DanP]

Or it might be for the same reason we have an 80 zone for 5km's of the main hwy up here, too many stacks.

Dan

[ozwinner]

80 Ks I could live with, but 60?
The only way I can do it, is to stick the yoot on cruise for the 1k.

Im thinking of employing a man with a red flag to walk in front of me to warn off the peasents.

Al

[echnidna]

Im thinking of employing a man with a red flag to walk in front of me to warn off the peasents.

Al

Whats the pay???????????????

Is there an apprenticeship,

wottabout a bad back