Advice Pls - Neighbour wants to put drainage on my property

[Hybrid]

After some heavy afternoon storms in Sydney this week my neighbour comes and knocks on my door and tells me "we have a problem". He is not happy about the amount of storm water that is running across his front yard from my property. I put forward the suggestion that his retaining wall that runs two thirds of our boundary is causing the water to back up and flow onto his property at one particular point rather than over the entire length of the boundary. With that he got fired up and didn't want to discuss the matter further, other than to demand that I install drainage that allowed this water to run to the street and not across his property.

BACKGROUND INFO:
Oh his side there is a 500mm tall concrete retaining wall that runs along our boundary from the end of the backyard to the front of the house - a good two thirds of the length of the property border. Storm water pools in my backyard against this wall. Because it can't escape over/through the wall, the bulk of this water is flowing across his front yard where the retaining wall ends. (There are weep holes in this wall but they are not too effective at draining large volumes of water after a heavy downpour). My backyard floods slightly but it does not phase me too much as it tends to drain away withing a couple of hours of the rain stopping.

BACK TO THE STORY
Today the neighbour's wife knocks on the door with a tradie. They are now requesting that this tradie digs a trench and installs ag pipe the length of our property to direct the water to the footpath. The catch - they want it to be done on my property as I have grass/garden beds running the length of the border while the neighbour has a concrete path on his side. They are willing for the work to be done totally at their expense.

I am not so sure about the notion of the work to be done on my side when I don't have an issue with the water. I am racking my brains trying to think of all the potential ramifications. I enquired about the tradie's insurance cover and the scope of the work. He says he has appropriate cover and apparently 5 blokes will dig a trench by hand, lay the pipe and then backfill - no machinery.

What else should I consider?
Will I become responsible in any way for this drainage as it is on my property - i.e. if it becomes less effective over time will it be my responsibility to maintain?
Does the potential exist for the council to instruct me to remove it for any reason?
Should I talk to a solicitor?

[AV Elec]

Should I talk to a solicitor?

I have no idea about the practical part, but feel that whatever you do, you should get a contract and put the whole situation in writing. You don't want surprises later...

[Ivan in Oz]

Does the potential exist for the council to instruct me to remove it for any reason?
Should I talk to a solicitor?

> Does the potential exist for the council to instruct me to remove it for any reason?
That's what you have to ask the Council

> Should I talk to a solicitor?
Sounds like it,
Council might give a suitable answer first, though

I'd be very careful on what precedence is set.

[Bloss]

You should check with your local water authority (usually the local council), but in almost all jurisdictions you do have a problem with the water as state and local government regs mandate that you must deal with all storm water on your property and are not to allow it to run onto the property of others.

So you can catch it into tanks, use swales, mulch beds, water courses, reed beds etc to ensure that it soaks into your garden and remains on your land, or direct it to the stormwater drains that must be connected to the town stormwater infrastructure - most commonly into the gutters in your street, but sometimes into storm water drains directly.

What does this mean in this case - well if your neighbour is willing to pay to have work done that is in fact your responsibility anyway you are being offered a good deal. You might wish to go ahead with it, but if the neighbour is smart enough to seek some advice from council too you might end up paying for it anyway - even some time after the work is done.

In any case it pays to be on good terms with your neighbours so perhaps you should have another chat after you get the facts and suggest a shared approach.

[bitingmidge]

Crikey you blokes!

What happened to the concept of being a good neighbour? It sounds like a perfectly reasonable deal to me.

What if he says, to heck with it and just builds a six foot block wall along his boundary?

If the pipe blocks, you're now worse than you are now.

cheers,

P

[davo2310]

Definately question the council.
Im not fond of ag lines, seems no matter how well they are in, they silt up and are near impossible to clean out. If its only the water at the front of the wall, maybe a pit there with a direct line to the street would be sufficient, easy maintenance. but its just a thought as I can only picture these questions as best I can.

Good luck
Davo

[DavidG]

I agree with Bloss.
I remember from some where that you are responsible for storm water leaving your property and must prevent it entering a neighbors place.

I think you are being offered a good deal.

[dazzler]

BACK TO THE STORY
Today the neighbour's wife knocks on the door with a tradie. They are now requesting that this tradie digs a trench and installs ag pipe the length of our property to direct the water to the footpath. The catch - they want it to be done on my property as I have grass/garden beds running the length of the border while the neighbour has a concrete path on his side. They are willing for the work to be done totally at their expense.

Unsaddle Trigger and help your neighbour out.

[Sturdee]

I also agree with Bloss. Legally you are required to deal with the water escaping from your property and stop it from doing so.

If you were my neighbour you would have had to fix it much earlier at your own expense. I wouldn't have paid towards it all but ensured you did it.

So get over it and let your neighbour do it before he decides to make you pay.


Peter.

[abitfishy]

Its funny the talk of having to stop stormwater leaving your property to someone elses - we were wanting to install a raised garden/retaining wall and were told the opposite by council - that we can't do anything that would stop the natural flow of the water as it can cause flooding, either in our place or next doors.

On a side note, I'm tempted to talk to our neighbours about their water tank - since its been installed instead of pouring rain overflowing their gutters onto their property, it now seems to first overflow the top of their tank, and run into our property. And when it peeves down, thats a lot of water. These are the same ones who put bricks along the bottom of the colorbond fence so when we whipper snip they don't get blades of grass coming under the fence onto their driveway!!!!! Don't you just love neighbours!

[Hybrid]

Unsaddle Trigger and help your neighbour out.

So get over it and let your neighbour do it before he decides to make you pay.

Peter.

Gees, some harsh responses there. I am honestly not trying to make it difficult for him - I simply don't want it to come back and bite me if I say yes. To be honest at this point in time I am inclined to give him the go ahead.

I am very cautious of any dealings with this bloke. This neighbour has a reputation in the street if being somewhat of a loose cannon. He has verbally abused neighbours guests for parking their cars in front of his house - on a public street. He has threatned my old tenants with a hammer and hosed inside their car when it was parked on my driveway with the windows down. Last year he was escorted to an ambulance by six Police officers after some sort of altercation with his wife one Sunday morning. From my conversations with him over the last 8 years I am of the belief that the guy is irrational and not the full quid.

I didn't want to bring it up in the original post as I thought I would just have made it too long winded but to put things into perpective for you .... when I first bought my place about 8 years ago, I rented it out for 5 years before moving in in 2005. Back in 2002 my tentants complained to me about the backyard flooding. I spoke with the neighbour and he wasn't interested in helping me to alleviate the problem. I involved the local council and the council recommended that my neighbour increase the number of weepholes in his retaining wall. The neighbour disagreed but the council was either powerless or too gutless to demand that he do this. My tennants stopped complaining about it so I didn't pursue the matter. Now the tables have turned and he wants rectify the problem but wants to do it on his terms.

I don't really have an issue with the drainage being installed on my property. I just want to consider all the potential problems down the track before I am stuck with a problem.

I also agree with Bloss. Legally you are required to deal with the water escaping from your property and stop it from doing so.

If you were my neighbour you would have had to fix it much earlier at your own expense. I wouldn't have paid towards it all but ensured you did it.

Surely there must be some reasonable discretion with this ruling. It is not as if every time it rains that a mass of water flows onto his property. We are talking once or twice a year when there is a massive dump of rain within a short period of time. Also, it is not as if my guttering or downpipes are defective and leaking, it is purely water landing on the backyard grass and then pooling at the lowest point. I truly believe that his wall is creating the problem by backing the water up. If there were sufficient drain holes in his wall the water would be dispersed over a larger area.

[journeyman Mick]

It's the deal of the century! Your neighbour is willing to pay to take care of what is legally your responsibility. Go to see tham ASAP and say you'' take them up on their offer, adding that you were a bit overwhelmed at it all and wasn't sure what to do. Bake them a cake, send them flowers, whatever, they're saving you serious money, I mean how much is it going to cost for 5 blokes to dig a trench. BTW, with the original problem, I'd say the reason the council didn't enforce the increased drain holes option was because, like others have said, water falling on your property has to stay on your property or discharge to the stormwater drains.

Mick

[les88]

I think that you are are on the wrong track.. it is not a storm water problem...that is piped to the street.
This is ground water and you are not allowed to change the natural flow of the water. Imagine the houses built on a slope then every house would need to build a rubble drain to stop the natural flow. The neighbor by building a retaining wall has stopped the natural flow he should have put a drain between the wall and the fence alignment when it was built, it is his fault check with the council.
les

[Hybrid]

I think that you are are on the wrong track.. it is not a storm water problem...that is piped to the street.
This is ground water and you are not allowed to change the natural flow of the water. Imagine the houses built on a slope then every house would need to build a rubble drain to stop the natural flow. The neighbor by building a retaining wall has stopped the natural flow he should have put a drain between the wall and the fence alignment when it was built, it is his fault check with the council.
les

This is my opinion as well, although it seems to differ from most who have replied here.

There have been a few recommendations to check with the council over this matter. It appears that my local council do not have jurisdiction in this area. This is from their website.

[Sturdee]

Surely there must be some reasonable discretion with this ruling. It is not as if every time it rains that a mass of water flows onto his property. We are talking once or twice a year when there is a massive dump of rain within a short period of time.

No point in checking with the council as it's a state legislative matter, at least in Vic.

In this legislation there is no allowances for discretion, neither for regular occurrances or the 100 year rainfall, for our local council had to pay damages which occurred at the last flooding because their drainage works turned out to be inadequate.

In January my daughters house got flooded because of the heavy rain and water entering her property because of earth works associated with Eastlink constructions two streets away and they have paid for all the damages including hotel costs whilst the clean up was being done.

Hence my comments that it's your problem and not your neighbour.


Peter.