Help wanted: first timer re-springing armchair

[zenwood]

I am attacking an armchair with a collapsed seat, a broken arm, and a collapsed back. The pics show the general state of the innards that I revealed today. Yet to investigate the back. But I discovered that the springs in the seat had detached at the top, and the seat itself seems to be falling apart. A piece of thin ply was supporting the arm pad, and of course someone sitting on the arm has broken the ply.

Any advice would be appreciated here. My questions are along the following lines:

1. Is this chair worth repairing?
2. Is it doable by a person with zero experience with this kind of work?
3. Will I be able to reuse all the old parts (springs, webbing, padding, fabrics, etc. or will I need to replace some or all of these)?
4. The helical seat springs were tied to the underneath part of the seat and to the lower webbing at the base of the chair. How is this done?
5. I've removed a few hundred staples today and about a hundred hemispherical drawing pins with an old chisel. Is there a special tool to make this easier?

Many thanks to anyone who can help a rather daunted zenwood.


These pics show attacking the seat from underneath...

[zenwood]

...and these pics show the broken arm. The frame itself seems quite stout, but the thin piece of plywood supporting the padding is inviting a disaster if anyone sits on the quite wide arm of this chair. Any suggestions for beefing it up?

[neilb]

Gday Zenwood
You really have your hands full with this project for a beginner ! I must warn you however, this isnt going to be a quick nor easy fixit project
Firstly, you must decide if the amount of time and effort you will be putting into the restoration is justified . There are many who would say yes for maybe sentimental reasons ect.

You really need a pneumatic staple gun and an air blower to tackle anything like this.

You must strip it all down to the framework to do it properly. Take note of how the stuffing is layered and stitched. If you want to you can cut it all out in a big block and refer to it when you are ready to start upholstering it again. All woodwork must be done first and any painting or polishing completed . About the only re-usable items would be the Coil Springs and sometimes the fibre stuffing. Depending on the age of the chair the stuffing could be wadding (which is finely shredded rags) or even horsehair. Check to see if the springs are not bend over or broken. If they are , - in the bin. The rest you can throw out.

Look up your Yellow Pages phone book under Upholstering supplies and you should find a local trade supplier. Sometimes you will have to buy in whole lots because they wont sell cut lengths of some stock. Work out if it is cheaper buying only what you need from an upholsterer or bulk from a trade supply warehouse.

With removing staples / tacks ect, You can get what is known as a staple remover tool. Most upholsterers just use what is called a stuffing regulator but when you use it, NEVER put your spare hand in front of it . You can also make one up by grinding an old 6" screwdriver to a not too sharp point. Need I say what can and DOES happen ? You will also need a webbing stretcher to make the webbing taut. Also a buttoning needle with a blade on one end and an eye in the other for stitching your rolled edges on the stuffing.

Have a chat to the trade supply place and usually they will give you advice on how and what to do and use.

You can also re-use the stuffing if you are prepared to "tease" it, by pulling it all apart and seperating it . It should end up about 6 times the size of what you started out with. And its dusty stuff.

Dont bother trying to use the old webbing , Its not worth it and the chair is only as strong as the webbing that holds everything up. A roll of 50mm Jute webbing is only a few dollars. If the chair has buttons, take some fabric to an upholsterer and he should be able to make them up . If not, send me some fabric and I can post them to you.

That should be enough info to get you started . Good luck and if you need to ask anything , fire away .
Neil.

[neilb]

Also , in the last pic where you've got your finger under the fabric, That is what is called Piping. You will need either jute or plastic piping which fabic is cut into 40mm or so strips and sewn around the piping cord. You may have to borrow beg or steal SHMBO sewing machine as well .

With closer examination of the other pics, it does look quite salvageable and the type of chair you have is known as a "Genoan " chair. they were usually made in a 3 piece suite up untill about 1960. If you can get the rest of the suite, you may have a nice investment in furniture once it is restored properly. Have a look in the Antique dealers shops. Mind you , they were never known as being comfortable as compared to todays lot but I will bet that long after the last Amart lounge has collapsed, the old Genoans will be still standing proudly.
Neil.

[zenwood]

Thanks for the informative reply, Neil. This chair is part of a suite of 2 armchairs and a 3-seater settee. We bought the suite about 15 years ago, apparently after it had been 'restored'. Maybe the restoration only consisted in recovering the tapestry fabric, given the state of the seat padding and springs after a relatively brief time. (See also attached pic showing a row of tacks along the outside of the seat frame which presumably did something in a former life.) Agree with your comments on comfort, and certainly looking at the frame of this chair, it is quite solidly built.

I ended up re-grinding my old chisel with a hollow 'v' profile, and reducing the sharpness: it now makes a better staple puller.


The chair doesn't have any buttons. But I was hoping to re-use the piping, since I don't have any spare tapestry fabric. Would that be possible?

The coil seat springs look to be in fine condition. I hope to get at the back springs today. I think I can reuse the coil springs at least.

I'm surprised you said the stuffing could be re-used. I guess the stuffing is horsehair -- since it is not shredded rags. The hair seems to have originally been held in a coarsely woven hessian sack, to which the springs were tied with string. This arrangement suprised me because it seems obvious that the springs would quickly dig-in to the stuffing and ruin it. I would have thought you'd need another layer of some tough material between the stuffing and the springs to act as a barrier.

Where do you get new webbing from?

I've seen the webbing stretching tools that look like pin-combs on one end, and a layer of rubber on the other end. I was thinking of making one myself, but I'm not sure how they are used. Any hint would be welcome.

Once again...thanks for the info, and the encouragement.

[neilb]

By the look of the pics your chairs stuffing is probably coconut fibre. This was one of the most common stuffings and you can still buy it by the Bale. With the piping, are you recovering the lounge in a new fabric or is the old one in good condition ?

If you are using the old fabric, yes you can re-use the old piping. You just have to make sure that when you re-apply it that you have enough to reach the other end as you staple it , stretch it. This will also make a straighter line. If youre a bit wonky with straight lines, use a 1mtr steel ruler or straight edge and put the piping up against it as you are stapling it on.

Now with the springs, there should be a heavy duty hessian cover over the top of the springs which is stapled on to the front and rear seat rails as well as the inner seat arm rails. Then each spring is tied in 3 places on the top ring of the coil to this hessian cover and dont cut the string when you have finished the first spring. Go straight to the next spring behind it and do the same. When you have tied a line of springs to the spring cover you then have to fasten the cord from the last and first springs to the front and rear seat rails respectively. Make sure that you dont over pull them one way or the other. when you have fastened them to the rails they must be standing up straight and not able to be lean over in any direction as this will in time bend them and will cause them to fall over or break with any weight put on the seat. When you have done the spring tying from front to back , do the same side to side but this time just tie them in the centre of the top of each coil. The only movement there should be now is straight up and down with compression.

You can get Jute webbing from Bunnings for about $10 a roll. With making a webbing stretcher, get a block of wood say 200mm x 60mm and drive 4 or 5 1 inch nails into the end grain of each end. Leave them sticking out about 12mm and then cut the heads off with pliers. You may have to sharpen then on the grinder if they wont poke through the webbing easily.

SHMBO is calling for dinner. This will keep you busy for a while.
Neil.

[woodcutta]

Zenwood,

Have seen this name come up a few times on this forum. Haven't purchased anything from them yet - but they look to have everything needed.

http://www.diyupholsterysupplies.com.au/

woodcutta

[echnidna]

Zenwood, have a look around youtune theres quite a few upholstery videos

You couls start here

[zenwood]

Thanks for the link woodcutta. Might check them out for specialist stuff.

I'm getting thoroughly sick of removing staples, and I'm not yet half way through. So far I have revealed the underside of the seat, the back, and one arm. The top of the arm will need some significant reinforcing I think. The hessian will need replacing. The seat looks likes it's made of a layer of foam, wadding and coconut fibre. The fibre had formed lumps between the springs. Can these be teased apart, or should I try to get hold of new fibre as well?

Yes the plan is to re-use the old coverings, just fix up the padding and the springs. The coverings are made from tapestry fabric and tan vinyl.

Here are some pics of today's de-stapling effort. First the underneath part of the seat padding shows the sad state of the hessian, and the coconut formed into lumps.

[zenwood]

The chair back shows how the webbing has come adrift, and the springs lying askew. It looks to me like a shoddy repair has been done with new webbing tacked directly to the inside faces of the side frames, rather than the front faces. The webbing has also been woven into the rear coils of the springs. Is this standard practice?

[zenwood]

Finally the sad state of the arm is shown under the foam: the ply has been bent over the curve of the arm and has been destoryed by people sitting on the arm of the chair. How can I fix this, and at the same time make it strong enough to support someone sitting on the arm of the chair?

[zenwood]

Echnidna: good idea using youtube. I hadn't thought of that, and it's always good to see someone who knows what they're doing.

[neilb]

With the damaged arm ply you have a couple of options.
1. put a thicker ply on it.
2. instead of using plywood, staple 50mm ELASTIC webbing across the width of the arm spaced 50mm apart. Stretch it fairly tight but not all the way so that if they do happen to sit on the arm, there is flexibility available. Put some heavy hessian over the webbing , staple it over the side of the arm, not the top and then put the foam back down. Clarke Rubber sell Elastic webbing but make sure you get Elastic SEATING webbing. There are different grades for seating and backs and you can buy only what you need from them. Probably around $5 a metre.
3. Kick the backside of who ever dares to sit on it.

Note how the old foam has been stapled through the sides of the arm foam and not through the top. There is a reason for this. If you staple it straight down you will end up with lumpy bumpy foam which shows through the finished job. By stapling the sides, you will notice that the top edge line of the foam is a lot straighter and with the right tension on your fabric it is easy to get a nice straight smooth finish along the top of the arms.

That Jute seat webbing is not meant to be woven in and out or around the springs. The webbing has to be woven in and out of each webb, front to back and also side to side. A general rule of thumb, whatever the width of webbing, that is the space between the next webb. This strengthens the webbing. Dont staple the webbing to any timber endgrain . If neccessary, take it around to the side rails and make sure to fold the webbing back over itself and staple again. If you dont, it will fray out in no time.

Sometimes a small strip of webbing is put between the spring coils when they are attached to a hard surface to stop them from squeeking and clicking.

In the meantime, enjoy getting those tacks and staples out and dont leave any on the shed floor. They go through shoes with the greatest of ease.
Neil.

[zenwood]

Thanks Neil. Good observation on the foam stapling. Any problem using the old foam? Can it be glued to the wood, instead of using staples? I have a staple gun but it's one of the hand operated ones and basically takes two hands and alot of force to use. I can see me getting RSI using it here.

Another question: the sides of the chair has padding which is bulging into the void in the arm (see pic). Is it worth trying to reinforce the back of this padding with wooden slats, extra webbing etc.?

[neilb]

With regards to the bulging of the filling into the arm cavity, the usual remedy is to take off the stuffing and hessian and install either a thin plywood panel to the top and bottom rails. Or put in vertical jute webbs spaced 50mm apart and also 2 horizontals front to back evenly spaced. Tight tension on all webbs is needed. Then put back the stuffing and hessian. If you used plywood, dont bother with putting back the hessian.

Hey, I did warn you about the absolute joys of staple removing , and on the subject of stapling, do yourself a favour and get yourself a small compressor and air stapler. You wont regret it. One of the cheap ones is fine just for occasional use. Make sure it can handle a minimum of 10mm depth staples.

Yes you can re-use the old foam and glue it back on, however I would take a good look at it first. Has it lost any of its density or firmness ? Does it feel like theres enough "bounce" in the foam when you lay your arm on it ? If in doubt, replace it with 25mm GREY foam and you wont look back. I have highlighted grey because different colours of foam indicate the different grades and densities.

You can cut it to size easily if you borrow SHMBO electric carving knife from her kitchen (or just dont tell her) and it will slice through foam like melted butter. Mark it out squarely with a texta and allow an extra say 10mm on all sides so that when you tack or glue it back on you arent stretching it into place which will lose some of the foams thickness.

With reference to the earlier pics, yes the repair job was done by an in-experienced person. The fact that Drawing pins and Vinyl was put over the tapestry is a dead giveaway. The webbings are atrocious and obviously not done properly.

However, you will have got the worst part of the project over with when you have removed the necessary staples and junk and life does get better from here on. Believe me , I did that work day in and day out when I was an apprentice and I know what you are going through, but I did warn you.
Neil.