Installing cooktop - do I need an electrician - and if so why?

[Geno]

We have just bought a new oven (electric), cooktop (electric) and rangehood.

I have pulled out the old Chef oven (guessing it weighed over 50kgs) and rangehood and have already installed the new rangehood which was a no-brainer.

Disconnecting the old oven was simple, the main challenge being to clean up the mess left by the butcher (presumably a "qualified sparky) who installed it in the first place.

I am reading the installation instructions for the Cooktop and it states that; "The cooktop MUST be installed by a qualified electrician".

Does anybody know where I stand legally if I do it myself? I have done a lot of basic wiring before without any problem and this job looks very simple. In this case simply unwire the old cooktop and run the existing wires into "L", "N" and Earth on the new cooktop.

The only problem I have had viv-a-vis electricals was when I got a sparky to put in some downlights and he trashed the roof in the process.

[Clinton1]

Cause if you do it yourself and it causes a problem, your warranty is void and the house insurance will not cover you.
Right or wrong - no warranty or insurance.

[ozwinner]

Its the lamb chops that need frying, not you..

Bzzzzttt.................zzzztttttt

Al

[DavidG]

Geno
Legally you need a sparkie. If you stuff it up there will be problems.

<SB>
Having said that - Why is it so - Why can a qualified sparkie legally make a #%#%@& mess and all is Ok but if we do a thing correctly it is not.

These sparkies need a big shake up and standard house work up to the meter box should be able to be done by anyone with a minimum qualification.
</SB>

[Termite]

I know who put mine in. but then again I spent quite a bit of my life in the building game.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Having said that - Why is it so - Why can a qualified sparkie legally make a #%#%@& mess and all is Ok but if we do a thing correctly it is not.

Because being a qualified sparky they also carry the appropriate insurance to cover themselves, you and any third-party who may be affected if they royally screw up. If, Ghu forbid, someone is killed by an appliance the installer'll be taken to task. Criminal negligence is criminal negligence, whether it's you trying to save a buck or a sparky.

Having said all that, it is a simple connection, provided that the existing wiring is:

• rated to take the appliance
• in good condition
• was wired correctly in the first place

If you have faith in your ability to check such things, all the better for you.

Oh... and there is certification which lets you disconnect/replace hardwired items without being a full sparky. 'Tis how some smarter gas-fitters and air-con repairers manage things. Not all tote a spare sparky in their toolkit.

There's also another certification available to owner-builders which permits 'em to wire up to the metre-box, subject to final approval & connection by a qual'd sparky. Offhand I forget the details of these cert's but I'm pretty sure they've been covered in these forums (fora? forii? :confused: ) before.

[Paul B]

Two words: voided warranty. Also, if you fu@k it up it could kill you.

Yes it's easy and just about anybody with a half a brain could do it. But if the sparky has made a dogs breakfast of the wiring, how sure are you that the wire you think is active is actually the active?

I had a sparky come into work to put in a few power points into the lab. Somehow the clown set it up so that there was a potential across the earths of two power points. I found out the hard way by touching two pieces of equipment at the same time. If a pro can stuff it up so can you. But if they do, you're covered, or your next of kin are.

[pharmaboy2]

By the looks of other peoples experience with sparky's- familiarity breeds contempt (or maybe just incompetence?)

Maybe the reason for the laws as regards unlicensed elctrical has more in common with the experience in the UK for instance, where laws (or is it just rules/threats?) were more lax, and the truly incompetent figured they could rewire their 250 year old terrace from start to finish with the odd bad outcome - usually for the new owner.

As always we go from the sublime to the ridiculous - you cant even replace a light here for chrissakes - replace a plug - youre kidding me. I dare say an insurance company would have the onus of proof to show the work was done by unlicensed as well as the unlicensed work being causal in the claim - wouldnt stop sending a letter of denial to try it on though.

[normell]

By the looks of other peoples experience with sparky's- familiarity breeds contempt (or maybe just incompetence?)

Maybe the reason for the laws as regards unlicensed elctrical has more in common with the experience in the UK for instance, where laws (or is it just rules/threats?) were more lax, and the truly incompetent figured they could rewire their 250 year old terrace from start to finish with the odd bad outcome - usually for the new owner.

As always we go from the sublime to the ridiculous - you cant even replace a light here for chrissakes - replace a plug - youre kidding me. I dare say an insurance company would have the onus of proof to show the work was done by unlicensed as well as the unlicensed work being causal in the claim - wouldnt stop sending a letter of denial to try it on though.

Ridiculous ain't the word.
Local hardware shop can't sell common fuse wire anymore, 'cause PPL might replace their own blown fuses (gotta use a qualified leccy) or buy the dearer circuit breaker's.

Normell

[Pulse]

Geno, The current standards AS 3000 also specify that an isolation switch is needed to turn off the oven in case of emergency.. This is a recent addition so the old circuit will probably not have it.

Cheers
Pulse

[Wildman]

The isolation switch also needs to be less than a certain distance from the oven (1500mm I think), labelled "oven" and be accessible without having to climb over anything or lean over the hot plates. You can buy 32A oven switches from any electrical supplier ready to use with the labels on them.

[silentC]

If you are wiring up a new stove to an existing circuit, are you required to bring the whole installation up to standard?

I'd probably do it if it was me but curious as to where you draw the line. If a sparky installs a security light for you, is he supposed to rewire the whole house so it complies?

[Redgy]

Silent....No & No

As far as I understand the sparky needs to tell the owner their installation is not up to current spec & the onus is on the owner to get it fixed. Example earthing to light points. A sparky puts a new light (ie new wiring to previously unlit room) in a house which all the other light fittings are not earthed. His job is to install the NEW light to current regs & advise the owner (in writing on the COC) that the rest of the house is not up to spec. If someone gets zapped off one of the original non earthed light fittings, owners problem not sparky's. I beleive the oven would be the same....you are replacing an existing component in the wiring so no need to fit the oven isolation switch. The sparky replacing your oven would be required to let you know that you should have a switch installed. If you built on a new kitchen then it is new wiring that would have to be to current spec.

Hope all that makes some sense, I've been out of the domestic scene for a fair while so am happy to be corrected.

Reg

[Markw]

Something you may also have to consider is the current rating for the two seperate assemblies.

I recently replaced my old upright with a separate oven and cooktop. The old upright operated on a single 32 amp circuit where as this was insufficient for the new assembly, 20 amp for the oven (double oven assembly) and 16 amps for the cooktop. The result was the installation of two separate circuits.

[Don777]

Hi Geno

I agreed with Mark, check total load and wire size..
yes I changed my partner's upright cooker over
But I did check the wire size and asked work's sparky, and he confirmed the wire size was Ok ( bigger than 4mm dia and multi strand ) ( it measured 5.5mm by the way ) So bingo new Cooker and no Sparky adn all is happy particularly me ( the Cook )

Lastly be carefully