Radial Arm Saw Cutting Direction

[warmtone]

Can someone explain the logic why a radial arm saw is "pulled" rather than "pushed" as per text books???

I have always used my inherited DeWalt 774 in "push" mode - with the blade cutting towards the wood as per hand held circular saws and compound mitre saws......

From my perpective this makes sense as a) dust and chips are pushed away from the breathing space and b)the pressure pushes the work piece safely against the fence. I can honestly say I have never had a problem working this way.

I must have missed something???

[soundman]

yep you have.
for a number of reasons you should pull a radial arm.
1. you have better controll on the pull stroke
2. cutting from the rear of the board drives the work down where cutting from the front can lift the work up and cause chatter and some cases throw the job around.
3. the chip clearance path is cleared by a pull cut.

There are other reasons that I have forgotten but someone will pipe up for sure.

cheers

[Hickory]

All the reasons mentioned above but they go together to help with the SAFETY issue. Should you decide to pull the saw out, align the work, then turn on the blade... Now you have this giant, screaming, spinning, flesh eating device all out and exposed, with one hand holding a piece of wood whilst the other tries to contain the beast. Should the work piece lift, your exposed hold/down hand will rise with it as you had not expected such activity and you would be drawn toward the blade. If the piece starts to chatter, you will be distracted and may reach in toward the blade. Also when you draw the blade out as you cut, (the approved method) you only expose the amount of blade necessary to complete the task.

In addition, IF the anti kickback device is properly installed, you will not be able to push feed due to the device. So If you are push feeding, you have either removed or misaligned the anti-kickback and the blade guards as well. Find them and put them back on the saw.

Where is the advantage? You are equating this saw to a hand held circular saw, with which you push feed. Look at the difference, the base of the hand held is the same as a table on the TS and the blade pushes the wood toward the resistance of the flat surface. The Radial arm saw must be able to push the wood toward the flat surface and shear off the wood fibers to make a cut, as well. In this case the flat surface is the table and the pull feed allows the blade to push toward the table and make a clean cut.

So, not only is Safety a BIG issue but Physics plays an important part as well, supporting what the Loverly Soundman has said.

[warmtone]

All the reasons mentioned above but they go together to help with the SAFETY issue. Should you decide to pull the saw out, align the work, then turn on the blade... Now you have this giant, screaming, spinning, flesh eating device all out and exposed, with one hand holding a piece of wood whilst the other tries to contain the beast. Should the work piece lift, your exposed hold/down hand will rise with it as you had not expected such activity and you would be drawn toward the blade. If the piece starts to chatter, you will be distracted and may reach in toward the blade. Also when you draw the blade out as you cut, (the approved method) you only expose the amount of blade necessary to complete the task.

In addition, IF the anti kickback device is properly installed, you will not be able to push feed due to the device. So If you are push feeding, you have either removed or misaligned the anti-kickback and the blade guards as well. Find them and put them back on the saw.

Where is the advantage? You are equating this saw to a hand held circular saw, with which you push feed. Look at the difference, the base of the hand held is the same as a table on the TS and the blade pushes the wood toward the resistance of the flat surface. The Radial arm saw must be able to push the wood toward the flat surface and shear off the wood fibers to make a cut, as well. In this case the flat surface is the table and the pull feed allows the blade to push toward the table and make a clean cut.

So, not only is Safety a BIG issue but Physics plays an important part as well, supporting what the Loverly Soundman has said.

Hickory, thanks, it seems I have been lucky to date - probably because I have mainly worked with softwoods like oregon and pine- and usually have the workpiece clamped. While for me pushing the saw is more natural, I accept that your logic is hard to challenge.

And with safety there should be no comprimises - woodworking is risky enough. Thanks for a clear explanation.

Looks like I will be rotating the blade and "pulling" the radial saw from now on!!

Just one final question: Does a compound mitre saw use a push or a pull?

[AlexS]

Thanks Hickory & Soundman. I'd never used one until recently when I'm teaching in a class with a couple of them available. I had it at the back of my mind that 'pulling' was the correct way to use it, but wasn't sure why.

[Timmy]

They frighten the b-g-bars out of me:eek: . Maybe just bad instruction to begin with errr !
Tim

[ian]

Looks like I will be rotating the blade and "pulling" the radial saw from now on!!

I'm not sure what you mean by "rotating the blade".
I hope you don't have the blade mounted backwards in respect to the saw's rotation

Just one final question: Does a compound mitre saw use a push or a pull?

My Makita uses a push stroke. The operating instructions say pull saw right out, turn it on, lower blade into the timber, push to the end of the stroke, turn saw off, lift saw. Note that the blade guard shrouds the saw blade in the up position and that the blade only cuts a mm or two below the table.



ian

[martrix]

Yes, I believe "Drop Saws" or Sliding Compound Mitre Saws are (only when you are docking a piece that is wider than the blade and one drop cut wont complete the cut) to be pulled towards you first, then drop down the blade and push towards the fence, as opposed to a Radial Arm Saw where pulling is the required action.
If you use the pull action on a drop saw, there is a good possibility of the saw climbing up over the timber.......I don't want to think about the rest:eek:

[olddog]

We had a knowall carpenter in our shop for a while with this same idea,he was cutting draw sides to lengh,pulling the saw right out and sliding the timber behind the saw and then push the saw back through the cut could not get through to him he was convinced he was correct.4 wood machinists in the shop all telling him the same thing but he new best,well it happened, he was sliding timber along the fence with the saw pulled out when he must have let the timber come off the fence and hit the blade,it picked up the timber and through it back to the fence and his hand hit the side of the blade did not loose any fingers but cut a couple of finger nails off him,he left some after,caused all sorts of crap with the Dept Labour at the time,they wanted some type of guard fitted so it could not happen again,we ended up with a side guard which made the saw more dangerous to use.

[warmtone]

I'm not sure what you mean by "rotating the blade".
I hope you don't have the blade mounted backwards in respect to the saw's rotationMy Makita uses a push stroke. The operating instructions say pull saw right out, turn it on, lower blade into the timber, push to the end of the stroke, turn saw off, lift saw. Note that the blade guard shrouds the saw blade in the up position and that the blade only cuts a mm or two below the table.

Ian, you're correct on second thoughts no blade rotation required!
B

ian

[Hickory]

Blade rotation is so that the lower teeth point toward the fence. Always!!! The rotation turns the pointy things toward the wood thing. Not good to turn the pointy things toward the operator. Operator get hurt that way.
Rule #1... Never hurt operator! Rule #2... Always follow Rule#1
Wood grows on trees, operators don't.

Actually this is a good discussion. There are a ton of fellows & gals who really don't know how it is to operate a radial arm saw and the difference between the mitre cutoff saw and the radial arm saw, compared to the circular saw and the Table saw. Although they are so similar, the only thing the same is the shape of the blade, Good question. Students, as a rule knows less than the teacher, so when we are self trained...

It is good to ask these things, folks who ask "Dumb" questions can count on all their fingers, Folks who don't ask "Dumb" questions can't count as high.... There are no "Dumb" questions when it comes to Safety and Machine opperation.

[warmtone]

Blade rotation is so that the lower teeth point toward the fence. Always!!! The rotation turns the pointy things toward the wood thing. Not good to turn the pointy things toward the operator. Operator get hurt that way.
Rule #1... Never hurt operator! Rule #2... Always follow Rule#1
Wood grows on trees, operators don't.

It is good to ask these things, folks who ask "Dumb" questions can count on all their fingers, Folks who don't ask "Dumb" questions can't count as high.... There are no "Dumb" questions when it comes to Safety and Machine opperation.

Hickory, thanks once again for your advice ........ a huge benefit of the site is to be able to learn from others and it is great to see so much interest in this thread.

As an aside, I note from a couple of boooks that radial saws have lost poularity - apparently due to the safety aspects and the perceived simplicity and "guaranteed" accuracy of cheaper sliding compound mitre saws.

This is a pity because I believe a radial arm saw has amazing versatility - and in some respects superior capabilities eg dado cuts. I've just managed to find an original Dewalt bible by Howard Silken that covers everything from accurate alignment through to cutting complex joints....... I should have read this earlier! In my opinion the biggest weakness in the design is the primitive wooden table and fence arrangement which limits accuracy unless constantly checked.

I plan to set mine up with a Festool MDF multi function benchtop which has precision holes drilled to take my Festool clamps and support jigs which I feel will improve accuracy.

[journeyman Mick]

.......................Rule #1... Never hurt operator! Rule #2... Always follow Rule#1
Wood grows on trees, operators don't...............

It is good to ask these things, folks who ask "Dumb" questions can count on all their fingers, Folks who don't ask "Dumb" questions can't count as high.....

Hickory,
some very simple, but very wise words there!

Mick