Gloss to Mat finish for old Jarrah floorboard

[Ymo]

Hi

I have an old Jarrah floor which has been restored with a glossy varnish. The beauty of the wood is lost with this plastic film over it. I am looking at replacing it with a matt finish. Being that old (1900 hundreds), I am refraining from sanding it back too aggressively.

One option suggested was to cover the glossy varnish with a matt one, after a light sanding. Attractive option, but my concern is that it add an other layer where my objective was to clear the wood of any synthetic product applied to it, as well as giving a better tactile connection with the floor.

I would appreciate any feedback, experience and tips on similar situation. Thank you

[AngelaPetruzzi]

Hello Ymo
If you wanted to use a natural oil finish, then unfortunately the synthetic coatings should come off otherwise there is no penetration of the oils into the top pores of the timber. One option to use on Jarrah would be the Ardvos universal wood oil. It has enough waxes and resins to give the boards protection however not give you a gloss. Very much a natural look and feel. Once done, it can quiet easily be spot repaired or rejuvenated at a later stage.
If I am not mistaken, Planet Ark store in Cantonment St, Fremantle have a sample, or speak to David there re the advantages of oiled floors.

[Horsecroft88]

The reasons you give for the dislike of the surface coating on your Jarrah floor is precisely why with the wooden floors in my two historic properties I have been extremely careful with them, only giving them the lightest of hand sanding (by orbital sander with two grades of paper, slow but effective in not loosing the patina) and thereafter first off a shellac coating followed by two to three coats of Tung Oil. Nothing more needed for many years, and if they get scratched the very lightest of sanding and a fresh coat of Tung Oil is all that is required.

Re your floors, if it were me, I would be most tempted to do what I could to sand it back to remove the poly-plastic finish and thereafter definitely go with an oil finish, as it both "feeds" the timber and will give it a more matt finish, which ages nicely.

[BobL]

One problem with sanding away the existing varnish is that all the gaps between the boards, will now contain varnish and no amount of sanding will get rid of that so when you go to apply an oil type finish who knows what will happen, you could end up with dark or light coloured lines and it may not look at all natural. Before you do this to the whole floor you may want to try it out somewhere like under a piece of furniture. Bear in mind that once you put an oil on the wood it will be very difficult to apply a varnish over the top. We had this problem in our study and it took 3 attempts - sanding - varnish - sanding - varnish - sanding and it still did not come out as well as we hoped it would.

Depending on foot traffic and how often the floor is vacuumed/cleaned a gloss finish will head towards a low sheen and then a matt finish over time. We did this in our family room and kitchen and after 5 years it was all pretty well low sheen. Right now (thats 19 years after the floor was sealed!) it badly needs to be done again.

I recently applied a 2 pack polyurethane to an Oregon kitchen bench top and it came up far glossier than I liked so I cut it back with fine (000) steel wool and now it looks naturally matt. The 2 pack is incredibly hard and a little flexible so it protects the surface way better than oiled wood. If you could find a steel wool pad to use on a floor sander this would be your quickest and least messy way of doing it. You can use a low sheen wax over the top of this if you wish and it will look very natural. Once again try this out before you do the whole floor.

Your solution of applying a Matt coat over the top is perfectly fine and I agree it does look more natural. It's all the same stuff apparently it just that matt and low sheen have various amounts of chalk added to it.

[Ymo]

Thank you guys for your valuable tips!

It is now clear that a proper sanding is needed to remove the varnish completely, particularly the gaps –excellent point!! But I won't use any polyurethane based product, and will investigate oils, including at Cantonnement St in Freo (I forgot about this store). I spotted a section for testing, which sounds like a wise approach considering the beauty and historical value of the old floor.

It is true that the varnish will fade by walking it. I like this thought, as it is precisely what give an old house its charm. After all this varnish is also part of history

Cheers,

[AngelaPetruzzi]

Having a floor with gaps that has been varnished is not amajor issue, and is not unusual. The oil will not penetrate into these “sealed”gaps and what may happen is if or when you oil your floor, there may be some “bleeding”that is the oil will push up as it had no chance to go into the timber (inthese gaps). All you need to do is keep an eye on the floor and if you noticesome oil coming up, just wipe it off, either with a paper towel, or if it hasalready started to harden, just go over the area lightly with something like ascotch pad. Your boards have colour variations so it should not be anything toodrastic unless one puttied the gaps with e.g. Black...and it does happen.

Yes do try a sample spot, but remember what you sand with anorbital sander will be slightly different to what one can achieve with a beltsander and then buffing machine. Not too drastic, so well worth doing a sample spot.

BObl, what a hassle you had. Wether one has oiled or varnished and want to changethe system it is imperative that the floor be sanded with a belt sander anddepending on the “coating” and thickness will dictate the grit one starts. Sometimesa mistake that happens is that whilst the floor is “flat”, not enough sandingis carried out to completely remove the coating, then there is rejection of thecoats which sounds like what has happened to your study.

Yes, if you wanted a poly finish, one can achieve this inmatt or do a gloss and it will matt over....but unevenly, that is the walk wayswill matt over whilst around the skirtings, perimeter of rooms that do not getwalked on will remain pretty much untouched.....and the more one sands floors,even if it is every 20 years, the more you are wearing out the tongue andgroove of your boards.

Once you have an oiled floor though, you would not wantanything else, it feels warmer, can spot rejuvenate and spot repair, no moresanding, does not edge bond the boards together....but remember correctly appliedand maintained they will last forever, if not though, nothing is bomb proof.

[BobL]

. . . .BObl, what a hassle you had. Wether one has oiled or varnished and want to changethe system it is imperative that the floor be sanded with a belt sander anddepending on the “coating” and thickness will dictate the grit one starts. Sometimesa mistake that happens is that whilst the floor is “flat”, not enough sandingis carried out to completely remove the coating, then there is rejection of thecoats which sounds like what has happened to your study..

It was belt sanded 3 times, so much so that the top of the tongue was only about 1 mm from the surface. The guy doing the sanding reckons that some liquid type floor polish had been used at some stage on those boards and that is impossible to get it all out.

Our hallway had vinyl tiles glued onto the boards probably in the 1950's. After the tiles were removed the glue that remained was a black rubbery sticky mess and several sanding guy's said they would not touch it until the glue was removed. It would come off with a solvent but the concern was what that would then do to the varnish. Eventually we found one guy who scattered sawdust and sanding wood dust over the glue and he went through a few extra belts but he managed to get it sanded. The problem was the glue in the gaps. It would not have looked so bad if the gaps were even or small but this is an old house so the gaps are quite variable and we reckoned it looked terrible so I spent 4 days with scrapers and sandpaper. Eventually I got most of it out.

[rod1949]

Could this end up being a case of "if it ain't broke then don't fix it" ???

[AngelaPetruzzi]

Wow, you did have some work on your hands. I can well understand the sanders not wanting to sand the glue off, even with dust extractors and vacuum, some of that dust (which turns to gunk with heat) is drawn into the drum sander...and at $8,000 plus, not worth stuffing up.

[AngelaPetruzzi]

Rod 1949....how true at times. It all depends on what one is happy to live with in the end and the journey getting there. Then again, if we did not do anything, we would still be using snail mail rather than this wonderful forum.

[Ymo]

Could this end up being a case of "if it ain't broke then don't fix it" ???

Guessing that on this blog we're all passionate about beautiful wood, the look of it as much as how it feels. So vinyl tiles... well.

[ubeaut]

Test any oil you use on a piece of jarrah before jumping in boots and all. Most oils will darken timber quite considerably and it may not be the look you want. Some oils can make jarrah and redgum extremely dark and almost unrecognisable as the timbers they are.

Not saying this is the case with the finish recommended by Angela as I have never seen it, but a test on your timber first is always a wise thing to do when choosing an oil finish.

[AngelaPetruzzi]

Yes, the oils will deepen the colour of the timber, but jarrah usually has quiet a bit of variation...anywhere from pinks to deep red. This variation will remain but will deepen and show up all the beautiful timber grain. The nice things with natural oils is one can rejuvenate the surface if or when necessary without sanding back. With any product, if you do not know it, it is always best to do a sample piece.