Angling for a result

[Michael G]

I have a bad habit on ebay, especially if an auction ends at an inconvenient time, of putting in a bid that I think will win me the item several hours before auction close. However, if there are two items of equal desirability I will do that for both, banking on the prospect that I will be outbid on one of them. This strategy works but occasionally I get stuck with two of something.
I can measure linear distances with reasonable certainty these days but angles were trickier. I had a cheap plastic protractor that worked for rough measurements and I once bought a really cheap Chinese protractor (copied from a Russian design apparently) but I was never really sure. So I bid on a Mitutoyo protractor and an Etalon protractor thinking that I'd get one and got both. I've now cleaned them superficially and relined the boxes they came in so the next thing to do was compare them, along with the existing collection.
The candidates -
P1010903 (Medium).JPGP1010901 (Medium).JPGP1010899 (Medium).JPGP1010900 (Medium).JPG
Left to right - Plastic, Chinese, Mitutoyo and Etalon. As well as commenting on the design and build, I thought I'd check them on a flat surface, an assumed right angle and a piece of stainless bent into an angle of roughly 135 degrees

P1010904 (Medium).JPG

First the plastic. The picture of it above is basically what you get on a card. Apparently it is an Aussie invention. I think I picked it up at Super cheap some years back. I find it great for quickly measuring angles roughly. It is graduated in 10' intervals on the vernier scale but really because of the width of the lines I would have said to 1/2 a degree is the best you could hope for. The results were flat - 0, 90 degree - 90.5 and obtuse angle - 136 degrees. One of the problems with using it on the flat is that the flared head will not sit flat on the surface. To get the result I had to hang it off the edge of the surface plate. The variation on the right angle had me worried but I realised that if the pivot holes are not in the exact right location with respect to the hot stamped numbers it will read wrongly - and it did.
P1010905 (Medium).JPG

Next I tested the Chinese protractor. This is graduated in 2 minute intervals. I originally bought this on the recommendation of another forum but it is a disappointment. While it cost bugga all, it is poorly finished and doesn't feel quality, although the graduations are sharp and clear. To use it the various edges and rules are rearranged around the dial so that an angle can be measured. There is a rack fitted to it so that for precise work a knob behind the dial can give fine adjustment. It's test results were 0, 90 degrees 2 minutes and 136 degrees. Apart from swapping bits around (I hope you are not in a hurry) it was fine to use and reasonably accurate.
P1010909 (Medium).JPG

Now the turn of the Mitutoyo. The part number on the box is not what is inside. I suspect that the previous owner obtained bits and pieces over the years and just put them in the box. As a result not only have I a protractor with a 12" beam, but also the 6" beam, an acute angle piece and a height gauge clamp. It also has a fine adjust rack (knob to the right of the central locking knob). I also suspect that it is a development of a design like the Etalon. I especially like the lens for helping make out the numbers. As I'm not at the stage where I need to wear glasses all the time, this is nice. Graduations are in 5 minute intervals. Test results were 10', 90 and 136. At first the 10 minute deviation on the flat surface worried me but on examination the outer surface of the beam and the other part of the protractor are not the same width, meaning that at zero degrees it will not be co-planar. Not critical as I would not expect to measure a flat surface this way normally, but worth knowing.
P1010912 (Medium).JPG

Finally the Etalon. Very similar to the Mitutoyo in layout and in features but it does not have lens on it. I don't know whether it was because this was an old unit or it has been scrubbed a bit but the numerals seemed faded to me and smaller. I had trouble reading it for that reason. This one also came with the acute angle attachment too. The results for it's testing were 15', 90 degrees 25' and 136 degrees 25'. The first error was as per the Mitutoyo - the beam and outer part of the protractor are not co-planar. However, the others were a worry as there is no provision for adjustment on the protractor. However, while checking this I removed the beam and noticed some muck on the clamping surface. I removed this and checked it again against the Mitutoyo and it gave the same readings. Checking the same area on the Mitutoyo, there are two pads (ends of dowel pins?) that the beam is clamped against, so any muck on the beam will tend to be wiped away.

P1010907 (Medium).JPG

So in summary, the plastic unit is fine for rough measurement, the Chinese unit is poorly finished but reasonably accurate based on this limited test. The Mitutoyo and the Etalon are both quite accurate but of the two I prefer the Mitutoyo simply because I can read it more easily. Someone with a better lit workshop (or better sight) probably would not have a problem with it. I'm yet to come up with a reason why I need to keep both though...

Michael

[KBs PensNmore]

Michael, are you asking for someone to buy one of them, because you can't make up your mind which one to sell!!!!!!!
Kryn

[matthew_g]

The reason to keep both is simple.
BECAUSE YOU CAN.

[Michael G]

Are you asking for someone to buy one of them, because you can't make up your mind which one to sell?

No. I know which one I want to keep - I just haven't made up my mind what to do with the other (Etalon) yet.

Michael

[simonl]

Hi Michael,

I have looked at those Chinese protractors on ebay for a while now but never got around to buying one. It's a shame you think they are poorly finished, they look OK from the ebay photos. I guess it's like a lot of Chinese stuff, it looks good from afar but they are far from good! But once again, for the price I probably couldn't fault them..... I like the mitutoyo one too!

Thanks for the comparison test.
I like your shotgun approach to getting bargains on ebay!

Cheers,

Simon

[th62]

I have one of the Chinese bevel protractors. I can't comment on accuracy because I have nothing to compare it with. It is a fiddly thing to use though, swapping bits around here and there and trying to find a surface that will fit in with your work. The machining on the back is a little rough, but it is easy to read and at $18 it certainly was cheap. Can't say it was good value though, I will be looking at a cheaper version of Michael G's Etalon or Mitutoyo in the future (around $36 on aliexpress), they look a lot less fiddly, have a magnifyer and appear to have surfaces that will fit in with your work.

[Gavin Newman]

No. I know which one I want to keep - I just haven't made up my mind what to do with the other (Etalon) yet.

Michael

I suspect that there are a number of us who would take it off your hands should you decide to sell it.....

Rgds - Gavin

[Anorak Bob]

Michael,

When it comes to measuring gear I have a fondness for both Japanese and Swiss. I have some beautiful examples of both. I feel the "vintage" Mitutoyo stuff has a utilitarian quality when compared to the refined Tesa and Etalon equipment I have. I like utilitarian, my old Nikon F and F2s possess it, a no frills, let's get down to business aesthetic that, sadly, has just about disappeared.

I had a very fine Starrett protractor, an early Ebay purchase. The graduations were small, too small for me to read without the use of a loupe. That protractor is now in the possession of a bloke with a big moustache who's younger and has better eyesight.

It's replacement is a Mitutoyo just like yours. I have seen a couple of Tesa protractors on Ebay.de but haven't been tempted. What I have does the job, nicely.

BT

[Master Splinter]

I use an ebay bid sniping service - gixen.com - to bid in the last few seconds of an auction. It also allows me to chain bidding on multiple actions together so that it doesn't bid on the remaining auctions once I've one one. Set it up days in advance and then just wait till you win one.

[Michael G]

I suspect that there are a number of us who would take it off your hands should you decide to sell it.....

Before I get indecisive about keeping it again I've listed the Etalon in the market place - first time I've used it so I hope I have it right.

Bid generously and know that the proceeds will go towards me "fighting" my TAS affliction (Tool Acquisition Syndrome)

Michael

[Oldneweng]

Before I get indecisive about keeping it again I've listed the Etalon in the market place - first time I've used it so I hope I have it right.

Bid generously and know that the proceeds will go towards me "fighting" my TAS affliction (Tool Acquisition Syndrome)

Michael

It would appear to me that this proceedure would be "aiding and abetting" your TAS.

Dean

[Steamwhisperer]

Michael,

I had a very fine Starrett protractor, an early Ebay purchase. The graduations were small, too small for me to read without the use of a loupe. That protractor is now in the possession of a bloke with a big moustache who's younger and has better eyesight.

BT

I don't know if I said this before but thanks Bob. She is getting great use.
I even used it to set the topslide over for screwcutting, why?...because I can...now

A much appreciative Phil

[Michael G]

It would appear to me that this proceedure would be "aiding and abetting" your TAS.

Depends on whether I'm fighting to keep it or fighting to lose it I suppose...

Michael

[Ueee]

Hi Michael,
A very good write up there. Just think, you could have sent it to MEW and they could have lost it and none of us would be any the wiser.....

I have a Starret protractor, with 2 blades, maybe 150mm and 50mm? I find it ok but my eyesight is still really good and i still pull out the magnifying glass at times so i can read it properly.
For checking the exact angle of the dovetails on the vernier (so i could grind the head clamp block) i used the mag sine plate in reverse with a clock. It took a bit to get the setup right but once i had it it was great. I also just bought a mag sine bar and i think i could also use it to measure by setting it to the angle, then measuring the stack height and doing the maths to get the angle. (backwards to how you would normally do it) I have to start a thread on the sine bar though, i was giving the seller some time to reply to the bars problem but he hasn't.....

Cheers,
Ew

[Michael G]

Just think, you could have sent it to MEW and they could have lost it and none of us would be any the wiser.....

Damn - I forgot all about getting MEW to lose it for me. Just shows I'm in the vague part of the year - for some reason I start forgetting things I really shouldn't. I'll come good after Christmas probably - yesterday I was asked to put a couple of tacks on an Al walker frame and I couldn't work out why it would not weld. Then I realised I hadn't changed the TIG over to AC . Blew some nice holes though...

Michael