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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    melb
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    136

    Default Do you see 150-220 grit scratches after staining?

    I read stop at 220grit or else the stain wont grab. But wouldn't you still see the scratches from when the stain fills them up? I mean some stop at 150. That just seems so course by hand. I would have thought 320-400 would be the ballpark minimum. As i can see the lines of 320 scratches on the bare wood with my eye.Also, If I was to buy some pine or hardwood new, do I need to sand before staining? I would like to assume it's good enough to go straight to staining.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Jimboomba. Qld
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    0

    Default

    Depending on the timber, but as a rule I would say you will still see the scratches.

    I go to as you say 320, 400.

    If you want a top finish when you've got as far a 400 wet the job down with a good slosh of water, rub it over the job then when its dry sand again starting at 240 though to 400.

    This raises the grain which will otherwise raise when you apply the wet stain.
    And then (STILL) have to be rubbed back, thus weakening the stain colour causing in some cases blotching

    On some jobs I have done the wetting stage 2 or 3 times before applying colour of shellac.

    BUT ONLY ON SOLID timber DON'T TRY IT ON MDF or Chipboard!!!!!!!!


    Cheers

    Steve

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    596

    Default

    Buying timber new that has been machine-planed will usually have bands of compression across its length. As Steve advises, wetting the timber will allow the compressed areas to lift and then you can really finish the surface.
    Make sure it's dry before applying the finish. Not many finishes can cope with moisture under them.
    Cheers,
    Jim

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Canberra
    Age
    48
    Posts
    318

    Default

    Until recently I've used water in exactly this way. I've now switched to sanding sealer, which seems (in my view) to work better, as long as you allow enough time for it to properly dry.

    Trav
    Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, NSW
    Posts
    614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tegmark View Post
    I read stop at 220grit or else the stain wont grab.
    I think that is usually said about the finish (lacquer, varnish etc) not stain, and I don't think it applies anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tegmark View Post
    But wouldn't you still see the scratches from when the stain fills them up?
    Yes, though it depends on the timber, what you are sanding with and whether you are sanding across the grain or strictly along the grain. Also whether you are sanding with an orbital, a random orbital or by hand. Orbital sanders leave nasty corkscrew shaped scratches, good ros's don't scratch much at all. Drum sanders and linishers are usually used to sand along the grain - and the eye plays tricks and makes longgrain scratches hard to detect.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tegmark View Post
    I mean some stop at 150. That just seems so course by hand.
    I think that's a reference to sanding using a drum sander or linisher. A lot of production-oriented cabinet shops stop at 180 if using a drum sander and clear coating. They will usually be applying a sealer, then sanding again, then applying a fairly high-build laquer or 2pack - with the stain in the finish rather then applied beforehand.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tegmark View Post
    I would have thought 320-400 would be the ballpark minimum. As i can see the lines of 320 scratches on the bare wood with my eye.
    I doubt you can see long grain scratches at 320. I think sanding technique could be the problem here. Generally, avoid sanding across grain.

    The spec sheets of most spray finishes mention sanding to 180 or 240 and not finer, but you can still get a mirror finish with them. Of course stain is different, and will highlight a scratch which a finish will fill.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tegmark View Post
    Also, If I was to buy some pine or hardwood new, do I need to sand before staining? I would like to assume it's good enough to go straight to staining.
    I would expect to sand it. There will be numerous scratches left by the industrial-scale milling machinery and poor handling.


    I should also clarify that you wont want to be using a sanding sealer if you are applying a stain before finishing.

    cheers
    Arron
    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

  6. #6
    rrich Guest

    Default

    If you are using a random orbit sander the trick is to GO SLOWLY. Move the sander constantly but at the rate of about 25MM per second.

    AND

    After you've sanded with the ROS, go over the project with the same grit on a sanding block and with the grain.

    For most stain and oil finishes 220 is about as fine as you want to go. (Better if you stop at 180.)

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