Americans - Friends Or Foes?

[Metal Head]

If you read the other Thread I started earlier - about the Pizza Hut - maybe this guy was trying to do what his government couldn't do. I know you cannot paint everyone with the same brush but similair news came out a few years ago that they wanted to do tests on the British.

• US wanted nerve gas tests done on Australians
• Request caused consternation in PM's office
• 200 troops would have been sprayed with chemicals

It's been revealed that the US military planned to test deadly nerve gas on Australian soldiers in far north Queensland during the Cold War. Newly declassified Defence and Prime Minister's office files show that the US was strongly pushing then prime minister Harold Holt's government in the 1960s to allow tests of two of the deadliest chemical weapons ever developed - VX and GB, better known as Sarin nerve gas.
The revelation will air this morning on the Nine Network's Sunday program. It says the top secret plan involved allowing 200 mainly Australian combat troops to be aerially bombed and sprayed with the chemical weapons. It's understood the Iron Range rainforest near Lockhart River in far north Queensland was the likely location for the tests.

Peter Bailey, a former senior official with Mr Holt, tells the program the request caused consternation in Canberra, and as far as he knows the tests never went ahead. But he says planning was very advanced in the US, which wanted the operation to be kept secret because the weapons were illegal under international law.

[cellist]

As an American and an Aussie, I think it's important to make sure that we don't confuse "Americans" with the government. They are not one and the same. I marched in every protest I could get to during the Vietnam war to try to stop it, as did what, in the end, was a majority of Americans. But the war went on and on despite the people being against it.

I just think that it's important not to tar every American with the same brush. The decision to do this horrible thing (I watched it too) was made by somebody where a suit talking to someone wearing a uniform. Americans on the street or at their dinner table would have been as horrified as you and I were...and that's why the documents were called "secret" for so long.

Most disturbing to me is the fact that Mr Hill, our last Liberal Defense Minister, was less than forthcoming about it. Not surprising to me, but a person seeing that story in another country might wonder about "Australians" since we were going to be the guinea pigs. Nope....not Australians....just insanity purveyed by a suit talking to a uniform.

[TermiMonster]

I hate to get on the Yank bashing waggon, but I will anyway. Remember the anthrax outbreak in the U.S. several years ago. No-one was ever charged, afaik, but the anthrax was proven to be US military manufactured. Makes you wonder who has the WMDs, them or 'us'.
TM

[Ron Dunn]

Somehow, I'm not surprised. Being an "ally" of the USA is frequently more dangerous than being their enemy.

I guess we're lucky that we don't have massive oil reserves left in Australia. Otherwise we'd be at risk of being "liberated" by Halliburton.

[BobR]

As cellist said, don't confuse the American public with the Administration.

[echnidna]

its not that many years ago that Oz destroyed vast stockpiles of mustard gas in the north that were setup in case of japanese invasion in ww2 , yet mustard gas was outlawed just after ww1.

Every country has misfits with too much authority

[Ron Dunn]

BobR, do you think they can be dissociated? After all, around 50% of that public elects the government AND much of their public sector, and delights in going flag-waving crazy whenever they hear the distant sound of gunfire.

I actually think that their government reflects the self-obsessed, gun-crazy blood-lust that runs through their veins.

They're not all like this - probably not even most - but it only takes a significant number to create a national characteristic.

[Woodwould]

Maybe a gross generalisation, but unfortunately the Septics view our world as theirs. Everybody has to fall in line with their desires, otherwise they'll override anyone (including international organisations like The United Nations) to get their way. And their temperament is worsening too. They know they now hold the 'Most Arrogant Nation on Earth' crown (wrenched with some difficulty from the French), so they don't even attempt to be pleasant or considerate to anyone.

I have a second business selling internationally and I now receive daily emails from Septics along the lines of "I need you to do…" or even just "Send me…". No "Dear Sir" or even "Hi", they just launch straight into their demands. I'm fortunate enough to be in the position where I can afford to ignore those types or be as vague as possible while remaining impeccably polite and outwardly friendly.

Sometimes the emails escalate to "I need to speak with your supervisor", whereupon I advise them my supervisor is working in another office and won't be home until at least 7 pm AEST.

They can be as arrogant and unsociable as they like in their own country, but I am very afraid of the manner in which they recklessly abuse other governments and peoples with scant regard for the welfare of their so-called allies.

[TermiMonster]

Mind you, despite my earlier rant, without them on our side, we should remember that we would be speaking Japanese, so thanks for that, Uncle Sam.
TM

[Ron Dunn]

Wasn't that the last war they won?

[TermiMonster]

No, I think their invasion of Grenada was chalked up as a win....
TM

[markharrison]

I'm in two minds about replying to this thread. The reason for that is that the USA is a very polarising topic, and pretty well always has been. This could quickly descend into a flame war.

Throwing caution to the wind, here is my considered opinion.

The United States, overall, is a force for good. Plenty of mistakes have been made by numerous administrations but on balance the US comes good in the end.

I would much rather an interventionist USA than the isolationist USA that existed prior to WW2. Roosevelt was prevented from making the USA the diplomatic powerhouse it has become by political sentiment at the time of not wanting to get involved in Europe's problems. Unfortunately this had the opposite effect to that intended. If the USA, Britain, France and others had stuck their collective oars in earlier and with more vigour then the whole mess may never have happened.

That is the big lesson that the USA learned and they are determined to not make that particular mistake again.

So much for geo-politics. Whenever and where ever there is a disaster in the world, the United States is there. A recent case in point is Burma. Standing off shore was a whole fleet of help ready to go. There was a degree of luck in the rapid availability of this help but it was there nonetheless. Not that it ended up making any difference but that's not the fault of the USA.

I have had the privilege to travel to the USA many times (more than 12) including four months in 2000 when I worked there. To be honest, I found the average person is at least as friendly and helpful as the average Australian.

For example, my wife and kids were trapped in a garage sans car by a sudden downpour. A fire truck pulled in to fill up and they noticed that they were sheltering from the rain. My wife was asked if they could drop her and the kids home. Not only a lift home but a lift home in a fire truck. My kids (who were four at the time) must have thought they had gone to heaven!

People would talk to you in buses and trains. Not just the creepy ones either.

The other great thing about the American people is that they are, as a group, extremely up beat and want to get on with things. The flip side of which is that they also tend to not always see the shortcomings of their intentions because the nay sayers are not always listened to.

As for the gun thing, well it's largely true. I remember seeing a bumper sticker in Phoenix that said "An armed socety is a polite society".

You know, maybe that's why they are so polite!

[Ron Dunn]

Individually great, agree.

Collectively ... Nationally ... deeply flawed.

[Gingermick]

Maybe a gross generalisation

Sorry but people who make gross generalisations are all idiots

[dazzler]

As an American and an Aussie, I think it's important to make sure that we don't confuse "Americans" with the government. They are not one and the same.

Spot on. Americans are just like aussies, with just a generally worrying infatuation with god and a little less ability to laugh at themselves.

coupla Vic Bitters in em and there aussies