Quality paper needed!!!

[Rowan]

I need to be pointed in the right direction. I am currently using a 50mm sanding pad to sand bowls carved out of burls. (no lathe used). For those that dont know the pads they are rubber based with a top covered with hooks to attach a piece of loop backed sandpaper onto. I purchased mine from a reputable, well large company (I wont name Timbecon just in case ). I got the sanding pad and a quantity of 3M papers. Problem is that of late the paper only lasts about 10 seconds before imitating a frisbee and flying around the workshop. Am I pressing too hard, not hard enough or is there a problem whith the pad??? I have even tried using a cordless viariable speed drill just in case it was the speed but no joy!

Are there different quality sandpapers available (not grit but the loop quality) and if so who supplies the best.

[Shane Watson]

Frankly, I never went past 3M....bought by the carton....outlasted every other brand any rep tried to sell me. But they did go wonky there at one stage when 3M stop manufacturing at one of there factories and the stuff then came out of an asian factory and was crap, that soon changed when people stopped using 3M...

[BobGilmour]

G'day Rowan

I've been making - and selling - fine art bowls carved from straight timber and burls for some years now. I finish around 1 a week (sometimes 2) ... and sell around 1 a week ... a well as a range of other general woodwork pieces and art pieces. My finish of choice is a wet-rubbed one (from 400# to 1200#) using thinned polyurethane etc.

Your problem is as doorstop says ... however, 3M's and everyone elses velcro does only have a limited life. Also, the little hooks degrade with heat (of sanding).

Here's an alternative to consider, which not only works for me, but also minimises some of your costs (ie papers).

After shaping, I do a quick 80# grind to take out the 16# scratches.

From then on, I use an air random orbital palm sander (Shinano - auto finish jobie) for which I've made both 2 and 4 inch pads. I do a clean-up sand with 40# hookit paper which is like a final shaping and remover of scratches from the grinding.

Then I change to a pad with a piece of smooth vinyl glued to it. Usually a 4" pad, unless doing small or deep forms - then I use a 2". This lets you use normal freecut paper in sheet or roll-form and stick it on with aerosol spray glue. I also have made pads with very soft foam backing for pieces which have more than usual curvature.

You can buy Septone spray contact for around $10 or Bostick for around $7 straight from hardware stores. I do around 20 to 30 hours of dry sanding in grades 80 / 150 / 240 / 320 / 400 each week and a tin lasts about 3 to 4 weeks. You only need mist coat on each change, although your first paper for the day should get a reasonable lick. I do buy pretty much all my finishing supplies from an auto finishing trade supplier in trade quanities.

This gets your paper costs down to almost nothing - because you do pay heaps for hookit.

I have used 3M exclusively over the last 15 or so years in all facets of finishing work from boatbuilding throught to fine art woodwork and sculpture, although have recently switched to Indasa (made in Portugal) as it is now significantly cheaper and pretty close in quality. I've run a few tests, and for my usage it's about 90% and about 60% of the cost. I buy all dry papers in 115mm wide rolls. That lets you cut or stamp 4 inch circles nicely. If you buy sheet paper, you can get 5 x 4" circles from one sheet.

I also make carved bone and wood jewellery pieces and so use a bunch of little 3/4 inch and 1 inch etc sanding disks - so I even keep and use the offcuts between the 4" and 2" bowl-sanding disk sizes.

After 400# dry, I change to wet sanding for applying finish - which I do the old way - by hand.

Hookit is great if you want to be able to change sanding sheets and re-use them. However, if you produce a lot of work, then the cost saving of switching to normal paper can be a great thing. Also, it means you can buy paper from a normal hardware store if you need to ... who might not necesarily carry hookit paper.

Hope the above is useful,


Cheers

Bob.

[alf t]

Rohan
Rhyno Brand Yes!

[BobGilmour]

just for clarity ... Rhyno 'brand' IS Indasa.

You'll get it from auto re-finish trade suppliers.

Bob.

[Rowan]

Thanks guys,

What doorstop so eloquently said could be right, will try gluing some more on. I have also printed out your system Bob and am looking at it cause it does make sense.

Only question with this system is what did you make the pads for the orbital out of. ie do they have any give in them or are they solid pads.

[BobGilmour]

Rowan

I use all different sorts of pads, depending on the shape of the work and also what I'm trying to achieve, finish-wise.

The best way to get started ... and probably the most useful pad ... is to go buy another standard 6" pad. Put it in a drill press or on the lathe and spin it down to about 4" with a grinder/36# sanding disk. The best option is the genuine 3M pads because they have a fibreglass backing with high density foam on the face. This pad lasts a long time even when cut down. AND, when these things do start falling apart, just keep gluing them back together with contact glue. Supacheap Auto also sells 6" orbital pads now, but I think they are plastic and chances are the bolt thread won't be right.

I have one pad made as above with velcro glued on (for hookit paper) and another with just smooth vinyl (for gluing on sheet paper). I've also made the odd inter-pad with velcro that provides a bit of extra cushioning for specific jobs.

4" is a good size for doing most open type bowls.

I've also got a couple of 4" pads with flexible backings and very soft foam glued on for fine grit finishing of really curvy work. You can't spin these very fast because they fly apart. Hence the need to be using air tools. Also, air randoms have no bulk ... which gives you much better control.

I also make up my own sanding pad assemblies out of flat PVC on the woodlathe. You just need to go along to a specialist bolt suppliers and pick up a few spare centre bolts that will fit your orbital machine. In this way, I have a few little 2" or so pads - some with little extension shafts - for sanding in tight curves or under the lips of undercut bowls etc. You do reach a point though, where the body size of the orbital tends to get in the way.

By far the best workhorse air random is the 6" SP one with about a 5mm orbit. Then the little 3" AirVantage is really good for finishing off on small work - although a bit small for large bowls. Both machines are around $300 and something each.

Anyway, hope that helps. I've got probably a dozen or more different pads that I use for various applications and also a heap of different sanding disks that fit on die grinders and air grinders for shaping.

Any questions?? ... don't hestitate.

Back to work ... week's running out and I've got plenty to finish.

Cheers,


Bob.