The Australian Navy Submarine Fleet

[Metal Head]

Hi,

Well blow me down another problem with the Collins Class Subs (Times 6 Off)........

But some senior engineering experts have warned that the Swedish-supplied Hedemora diesel engines may have to be replaced - a major design and engineering job that could take years to fix and cost hundreds of millions of dollars. So serious are the problems that DMO has placed the Collins boats at the top of their "projects of concern".

We have this fiasco going on.........Myki here in Melbourne.........The one in Sydney was dumped.....

How much more "PUBLIC MONEY" has got to be wasted on some Australian companies who cannot do the tasks they claim they can do???

Why can we not be honest with ourselves and say we cannot presently build these "World Class" products so lets get them built elsewhere (and for a lot less). We cannot continue to throw hard earned money down the drain as State & Federal governments presently do. Remember we have only a population of 20 Million not 200 Million where we may be able to afford such waste!!

So what happens if Indonesia or a "Tiger" country thinks about invading us tomorrow? What use will one submarine (if that is operational and not just for training) be? I suppose we could always twist the arms of our American friends to come over and help (given that we are helping them out in Afghanistan I suppose). Maybe I am over reacting but the thought that we are going to continue to spend unknown amounts (open cheque book) of dollars on these antiquated (well they will be at this rate) black elephants why bother. Lets cut our losses and invest in a few (proven) from elsewhere instead?

No one should be employed in a job that doesn't pay its way? Isn't that why most governments tasks are now privatised to get the best value for your buck - or is it just a sham?

I look forward to hearing other peoples views on this topic

Regards
MH

[jimbur]

Electrical problems this time wasn't it? We all know how hard it can be to get a sparky on dry land even.
Cheers.
Jim

[Mr Brush]

Funny thing ........I remember reading some very upbeat articles in glossy magazines about the Australian Submarine Corporation (ASC) when these things were being built. Wasn't it great that we had the capability in-country, that the submarines were being delivered on time, and hadn't we done a wonderful job.....blah, blah, blah.

Of course, it all went a bit quiet after they were actually delivered Soon after that it was discovered that the submarines reacted badly to salt water, and its been pretty much all downhill from there.......

If Indonesia ever gets a bit feisty, I say we drop a Collins Class Submarine on them from a great height. They won't be expecting THAT.....

[jimbur]

Funny thing ........I remember reading some very upbeat articles in glossy magazines about the Australian Submarine Corporation (ASC) when these things were being built. Wasn't it great that we had the capability in-country, that the submarines were being delivered on time, and hadn't we done a wonderful job.....blah, blah, blah.

Of course, it all went a bit quiet after they were actually delivered Soon after that it was discovered that the submarines reacted badly to salt water, and its been pretty much all downhill from there.......

If Indonesia ever gets a bit feisty, I say we drop a Collins Class Submarine on them from a great height. They won't be expecting THAT.....

Carried with some of those helicopters we bought

[Daddles]

First off, how dare you use the term 'fleet' - there's only one of them operational and one sub doesn't make a fleet

If the problem is a Swedish supplied engine, is the problem at our end or is it the Swedes who aren't up to the job?

They have had a lot of problems but are rated as the best non-nuclear sub in the world. Does anyone have some genuine information on how the fleet has really been as opposed to media driven screams of uselessness everytime someone strips a nut?

Richard

[Mr Brush]

jimbur - I'd forgotten about those.....

Look, as long as our enemies are sporting enough to give us plenty of warning, we'll be right. Some of those submarine parts are on a fairly long lead time.....

Let's face it, we don't really have the money (or inclination?) to play with the big boys.

[jimbur]

Let's face it, we don't really have the money (or inclination?) to play with the big boys.

We've got a good postal service. "Our response to your act of agression is coming by parcel post - please sign the enclosed receipt"
Cheers,
Jim

[corbs]

As long as our enemies believe they are as bad as the media likes to portray them to be we're fine

[mjmjm]

I remember a few years ago the Minister for Defence being decribed in Parliament: "as big and noisy and useless as a Collins class submarine."

[Groggy]

The previous head of the Submarine Corporation is now the head of the DMO who is tasked to keep them going. Good luck with that.

[Master Splinter]

I'll have you know that even one Collins-class is enough to be useful. Get it going full ahead near an enemy harbour, then jam it in reverse and drop the clutch, and the resulting grinding noise from the gearbox is sufficient to stun a small population. (that's the real reason that the propeller design is classified top secret!)

Actually it was interesting reading articles about the Collins - we wanted to borrow some glue technology from the Brits and the Yanks (glue for keeping the acoustic deadening tiles on the hull), but they wouldn't share their shhhhhh - top secret recipes...so Defence here just used the stuff that sticks cats-eye reflectors to the road. UK and US subs are sometimes spotted with missing tiles due to glue failure, but no Collins have had tiles (or cats eyes) come off!!...(Ok, Defence probably used the military grade of glue, same stuff but delivered in a camo green non-sparking metal tub and $500 on the price tag).

So for all the yachties here - cat's eye glue is the go for all those hull add-ons!

[dj_pnevans]

This is not 100% or even close to being right. Yes there are things that can and should be done better, but we have to work with what we have which we do. If we were to get invaded i'm sure the Yank's and the Britt's will come and help, but hang on we do have more then submarines in the Navy and we evan have planes in the Air force. So you can all go to bed at night and have a good night sleep because the Department of defence is doing its job with what it has.
David
BTW i'm a proud submariner and don't ask me any question about what's going on with the boats as I like my TS clearance.

[beer is good]

And now our genius Prime Minister Rudd the DUD wants to spend billions on building subs in Australia to replace the Collins. For about a quarter of the cost we could buy proven and tested subs from Germany.

Now they know a thing or two about submarines...

[johngi]

First off, how dare you use the term 'fleet' - there's only one of them operational and one sub doesn't make a fleet

If the problem is a Swedish supplied engine, is the problem at our end or is it the Swedes who aren't up to the job?

They have had a lot of problems but are rated as the best non-nuclear sub in the world. Does anyone have some genuine information on how the fleet has really been as opposed to media driven screams of uselessness everytime someone strips a nut?

Richard

Daddles

Media hype is the key here. Having had a twenty odd year association with RAN submariners mainly at HMAS Watson submarine training school supplying and maintaining simulators, I can confirm that the Collins Class Subs did not get off to a good start, the media had a party. Suffice to say that the majority of new items of equipment, military or civil, don’t work per specification first go out of the box.

It is interesting that after the initial shake down, about two years, not a lot was heard about the Collins Class. Now they are coming up for twenty years service and as may be expected equipment use by dates the media have again latched onto another snippet to sell news papers but that’s their job.

Johngi