Help needed-repairing veneer on baby grand piano

[Big Bird]

G'day all,

I have recently purchased a really old and banged up baby grand piano that I am undertaking a complete restoration of.

I should know better, but all of the strings have been removed, the frame sent to be repaired and so on...There are many piano experts around the world telling me I should spend the money on therapy and not the piano, but trust me....this is therapy.

Anyway, my question is regarding walnut veneer. There is a section on the top of the piano that has bubbled and I fear that if I mearly sand it I will end up going through to the base timber, which I believe to be maple.

What I know about veneering you could put on the back of a postage stamp, but I am determined to do as much of the work myself as possible and learn all of the neccessary skills.

I discovered this last night as I started stripping the varnish from the top cover.

Is it possible to simply purchase walnut veneer in this way?

How is the existing (damaged) veneer removed? and

How is the new veneer applied?

Thankyou for any assistance.

I have a heap of photoes of what has been done so far at: www.myspace.com/harryg73 if that helps you help me.

[Sebastiaan56]

Hi Harry,

I cant help you directly but if you post a link to this post in the Finishing section of the forum the gurus of finishing hang out there.

Good luck and keep us posted, Ive taken on a few doozies in my time but nothing like this,

[Neil]

Is the veneer damaged or has it just bubbled up? does it have a hole in it or major cracks etc?

Cheers

[Big Bird]

All of the above?

[seriph1]

WELCOME TO THE FORUM BB! Not sure if the following will be of any use, but here goes........It is a big project but a worthy one I reckon.... Baby Grands are wonderful!

There's a guy called Liam who worked with Porter's Paints (South Yarra) who 'may' be able to help, but possibly not in a way so far considered. he may be able to apply a high quality faux finish to the damaged veneers and blend the repairs in so they're not noticeable - the reason I suggest this is because all the veneers on the piano are the same age, species, been through the same conditions etc etc .... and finding convincing replacements may not be possible.

I would be keen to see the damaged areas you're mentioning as I have repaired cabinet veneers that have cracked and bubbled by injecting diluted PVA under them and applying heat and pressure .... for the splits in the veneer, I stole slivers from the bottom of the cabinet and glued them in place.... they weren't invisible but only I knew where the repairs were. This work was on a very expensive console radio which was sold to a collector - I replaced the 'stolen' bits with modern walnut veneer from a place in Thomastown, now no longer in business.

[MacS]

B.B.,

Most veneers in that time period used hide glues for their gluing of the case piece and the veneers, to soften hide glues you can use heat or vinegar, which will dissolve the hide glue.

You may need a combination of the two, plus a scraper.

I would remove it all and then re-veneer it, save some pieces in case you need to do some other patching on the piano.

Good Luck

[Big Bird]

OK then,

Where can I purchase veneer. It must be available somewhere.

Thanks for the faux finish idea, but no thanks, I want the real thing.

So if anyone knows where to get the stuff in the greater Melbourne metro area, I would be most appreciated.

Cheers
HARRY

[old_picker]

see here for some veneer suppliers

sounds like a big project

why dont you post some pics?
1st question is do you want to restore the piano or stabilise the damaged veneer

[seriph1]

I agree that some pics would really help folks here to recommend a course of action - it may be that the veneer all needs replacing or it may be that none of it does .... just had a thought - if an accurate image can be provided of the veneer in good condition, someone on the forum may even have some laying around .... I threw away probably 40 small sheets of veneer when I moved .... others may not have been so dumb.

Finally, bigger Op Shops and the like may have veneered robes or dressing tables that match or come close to your veneers .... just a possibility.

[DJ’s Timber]

I have a heap of photoes of what has been done so far at: www.myspace.com/harryg73 if that helps you help me.

Can you put some photos up here?

To see the photos on your link, requires you to register and some of us may not want to do so.

[chrisb691]

Peter Scott Young, in Ringwood, has a large stock of veneers. He's a really nice guy, and a pleasure to deal with. I would try an iron, and see if you can gently remove the damaged veneer. Then give Peter a ring, and make a time with him to toddle over with the piece of veneer. You then have the best chance of matching.

If hide glue was used originally, then you have to use it when you fit the new piece.

Veneer supplies. Has a fairly wide range

Peter Scott Young
37 Alexadra Rd
East Ringwood, Victoria 3135
(03) 9870 8733

[astrid]

repairing veneer or replacing it can be a tough job or surprisingly easy
a few pointers
1. walnut veneer is very expensive and hard for a beginner to put on well.
result; cost a lot with disapointing result.
2. trying to repair the old stuff is the cheaper option as it costs nothing in materials and if your not happy with the result you can go back to 1
3. get a quote from a couple of proffessional restorers.
they may be able to restor the old for less than you'll pay for that much walnut

if you want to have a go yourself here's a method

first take the top off the piano.

strip off the old polish with meths
the reason not to use stripper is that you dont want to get gunk under the broken bits of veneer or it wont stick down cleanly

be carefull not to break any veneer where its bubbled but intact

with a soft brush and whatevere else comes to mind, clean as much dirt dust or small splinters out of the broken areas

with the tip of a warm iron or a thermostatic control soldering iron press down v gently on the blisters somtimes this is enough to melt the old glue underneath

if this dosent work, make a small cut along one edgeof the bubble with the grain with a razor blade, apply pva along the length of the cuti
now press and release the bubble gently, the glue should suck under the bubble
whem youve worked in sufficient glue, wipe of excess and put a weight on the bubble (not a timber one !)

the broken stuff can be fixed the same way just use a razot to get out as much old glue and dust as you can. use masking tape to fix it down

where the veneer is missing, fill with araldite coloured to match, use the slower drying stuff.
when its all dry, gently sand the filler to level

re polish the top

warning, this requires patience
astrid

[jerryc]

Seriph 1 is right on the ball on this. Removing veneer is the last option and bubbles can be repaired by slitting the bubble and injecting cross linked pva (Tradesmans choice is one brand I have used successfully). Taking pieces from hidden areas for patching is spot on and one other tip is to cut the patch in a narrow diamond or even saw edge shape along the grain. The eye picks up a cut across the grain but is less able to see a longer narrow diamond. Obviously you would choose a patch as close to the grain as possible but do not discount using a fine brush and artists colour to blend the patch into the major work.

Jerry

[astrid]

your right about patching with pinched verneer if the missing bits are on the edge, but if the holes are in the middle I'd fill em.
cutting a patch where there is no open edge is tricky!
also if the veneer has a large split its probably where the carcass timber has shrunk.
youll need to tap a shim into the carcass to support the veneer

astrid

[Big Bird]

OK..here's the deal, before I stuff up an antique, I am working on a cabinet to hold a somewhat sentimental collection of liqueurs, brandies, ports and other spirits.

I was simply going to paint this unit as I would a car, but now I see it as an opportunity to learn a whole new heap of skills on a cheap project rather than muck up an expensive one, so I have decided to veneer this cabinet first.

The piano can wait for a while and as it and my bottle collection will be in the same area the two should match quite well.

And further to other questions here, if I knew how to post photoes here I would.

Cheers
HARRY