Carba-Tec 10" Contractors Saw

[Prle77]

Hi guys... in past few months I've bought several powertools so will put my review on them in several posts
Carba-Tec 10" Contractors Saw

Pros:
Very affordable saw
At the time of purchase it was on special... Table saw plus two CMT blades
Runs on 10A.... (I know to many doesn't mean much but for those who are renting and have faced power limitation in their workspace it might mean a lot)
Accepts dado blades
Cast iron top...
Easy to assemble
Easy to align
Generous ripping size (advertised 770mm on the right but I've managed to rip close to 820mm)
4" dust collection at the bottom

Cons
The fence measurement is far from accurate
Fence itself is quite basic and has a fairly big gap between the bottom of the fence and table top
Guard is big but does not have any outlets for vacuum... Also it tends to move a lot thus hitting the blade with slightest push
Being contractor saw it can fairly easy move out of alignment.. slight nudge to the motor and it is missaligned
But as a benefit it is quite easy to get it back into alignment.


Now to fix the downfalls I've purchased digital fence measurement from woodworksupplies and Biesemeyer (hope that is how it's spelled) copy fence
With those two adjustments I became quite happy with the saw overall..
For a sub $1000 table saw it is more than adequate....
Next thing is to look at the replacement guard and I will be 100% happy..

[Evanism]

Luckier than me, I've just purchased a 12m10a from tradetools. I have spent the last 4 hours trying to get it all aligned up. The table wings wouldn't sit flat, the top itself is a rabid mongrel to get straight with the blade and the left side wing is out 2mm front to back without any capacity for adjustment.

I'll have to use my metal tools to carefully thin down the mounting block to align properly, otherwise its useless, actually - dangerous. While I don't have buyers remorse, quite yet, I'm not feeling the love.

[Damienol]

I purchased one of these about a year ago and love it.

The gap at the bottom of the fence can be annoying but easy fixed by clamping a board to the fence.

The mitre gauge is crap. Swapped it out with an incra miter 1000HD and works a treat.

You will also need a digital angle finder to get accurate bevels.

Guard is crap. But aren't most guards on most power tools? Easy fix, remove it

I haven't noticed any misalignment issues with bumps to the motor. How would I know? Perhaps you just need to tighten some nuts???

The big stop button is very handy as you operate it with your leg at the end of your cut and still hold onto your piece.

[nrb]

I have had this saw for about two years now,in regard to bumping the motor putting things off I'm not sure what you mean?
The rip fence can be adjusted down using the two plastic screws used to set the fence square to the table that are near the clamp,if you can't get them down enough just remove them and grind a bit off,I still have a gap so it moves ok but 3mm ply will not go under it.I found this better than a board clamped to the fence,when you do this it makes the scale out.
I found the scale to be ok,but I always check out of habit.
My saw had a problem when only two weeks old it seized up,what happened was the locks that hold the blade shaft bearings came loose and jammed against the bearings ,Carbetec were great they came and picked it up,found that what I suggested was wrong and fixed the issue,then returned it to me in about three days,I can only say that their service was above and beyound what was expected,as I no longer had a car that was big enough to get the saw into the boot they picked it up and returned it no charge.
Everything was straight,saw to mitre slots etc. Did have a bit of fun putting it all together and getting the table wings flat.
I also replaced the mitre gauge with an Incra
At the end of the day a good saw for a good price.

[Evanism]

NRB, agreed.

I have another thread in the Table Saw area going where I am having a belly ache about a few exceedingly trivial things.

The Incra 1000HD is on its way. Tried to order it from Carbatec but they only took the order and after a 3 week wait, upon prompting, said it was a further 12 weeks. Off the the USA I order-a-go..... (are you hearing this Carba-tec?)

Also took others advice and started an outfeed table, a zero clearance insert. Also now have two GRR-Rippers and a single 1/8" block.

I've had a ABSOLUTE TON OF FUN on the saw over the last week. I am a pig in mud.

That said, I am also ordering two magnetic grippers (Mesa Vista GRIP TITEs) and a little splitter system for the Zero Insert as I really dislike the current reeving knife. Its horrible, bulky and designed by a blind chimp with one eye and half an ####. They should offer a "$250 non-#### upgrade option" with these things. I didn't want to skip into the $3k range, but I would have gladly dumped the router extension, the (VERY crap) sliding tables mitre gauge and very crappy kickback cowling (it works, but I wouldn't trust my finger or face to it)

[Damienol]

I got my Incra from Amazon. I approached Carbatec to see if they could get closer to the amazon price and they didn't budge.

from memory I got it for around half price and it only took about a week to get to me

[Evanism]

It gets worse, MUCH WORSE.

Thanks for posting Damienol, for I ordered the Incra 1000HD on the 4th September. It was priced at $239. It felt like a good price.

I have put orders into Carba-tec over the last few weeks for over $3400 and I have to say their response is VERY (f^*n) ordinary.

I own/run a little IT and online sales company. We ship EVERYTHING the next day, without fail, with tracking. I don't expect others to do the same. My inventory is about 1200 items, while Carbatec is possibly zillions so theirs is far more complex, but the order followup service ABSOLUTELY is the worst, ever, EVERY time.

I am waiting on the 1000HD and a Veritas MK2 Honing guide. This is out of an order of 22 items. I HAD TO FOLLOW THEM UP!. After no email after a few weeks I contacted the generic "contact us", 3 days later I get a response of (and I kid you not) "it could be another 6-12 weeks" (I copy/pasted this). I HAD TO FOLLOW THEM UP!

Naturally, rather than using Carba-tec, I went to a USA supplier and ordered that, plus an Incra LS32" (and a Wixey gauge for the thicknesser AND a few other things). Don't get me started about Australian suppliers... I paid $248 postage (argh!) and it is STILL (!!!!) about $200 cheaper than the cheapest here!

I tried to order from Amazon, but they no longer take Oz orders for Incra. bummer. Festool are now pretty much the same.

Now, I have wound down from my rant. Breathe, breathe. I am calm. BUT several businesses have lost a fairly considerable sum from just me, so multiply this over, say 1 million, and its a LOT of money. All I am asking these people to do is provide me with the stuff THEY ARE SELLING.... it seems to me that we are failing as a country.

Just another note, I received an email from Taunton Press (USA) about a rather good book they have about Cabinet Making. Their form when checking out said "USA/Canada" so I emailed them about the possibility of shiiping to Oz. ONE DAY.... read this gain.... ONE DAY after I emailed, I received a response, sorry, it said. I went back and chose AUSTRALIA from the list and bought 5 books for $15 postage. FIVE. For FIFTEEN BUCKS! Australian businesses are doomed, utterly doomed. There is no way on earth you would get an Australian business modifying their order process to accommodate an order to Uzbekistan or Chad.

So, RANT over! Sorry for that my fellow wood nerds, but this REALLY dug under my skin this week! Again, thanks Damienol, you add passion to my life and I owe you one.

[Rob from Kew]

I totally agree. Why, why, why does it take so long for goods to be delivered in Australia when you can order from overseas and get it in 4 to 5 days. I just don't understand. And don't get me started on the cost of products and the postage in Australia. Surely we can do better.

Carbatec is now the exclusive Australian retailer of Jet Machinery. Is this the beginning of the demise of the Jet product in Australia? Do they have the knowledge and backup staff to service the product? Only time will tell.

It gets worse, MUCH WORSE.

Thanks for posting Damienol, for I ordered the Incra 1000HD on the 4th September. It was priced at $239. It felt like a good price.

I have put orders into Carba-tec over the last few weeks for over $3400 and I have to say their response is VERY (f^*n) ordinary.

I own/run a little IT and online sales company. We ship EVERYTHING the next day, without fail, with tracking. I don't expect others to do the same. My inventory is about 1200 items, while Carbatec is possibly zillions so theirs is far more complex, but the order followup service ABSOLUTELY is the worst, ever, EVERY time.

I am waiting on the 1000HD and a Veritas MK2 Honing guide. This is out of an order of 22 items. I HAD TO FOLLOW THEM UP!. After no email after a few weeks I contacted the generic "contact us", 3 days later I get a response of (and I kid you not) "it could be another 6-12 weeks" (I copy/pasted this). I HAD TO FOLLOW THEM UP!

Naturally, rather than using Carba-tec, I went to a USA supplier and ordered that, plus an Incra LS32" (and a Wixey gauge for the thicknesser AND a few other things). Don't get me started about Australian suppliers... I paid $248 postage (argh!) and it is STILL (!!!!) about $200 cheaper than the cheapest here!

I tried to order from Amazon, but they no longer take Oz orders for Incra. bummer. Festool are now pretty much the same.

Now, I have wound down from my rant. Breathe, breathe. I am calm. BUT several businesses have lost a fairly considerable sum from just me, so multiply this over, say 1 million, and its a LOT of money. All I am asking these people to do is provide me with the stuff THEY ARE SELLING.... it seems to me that we are failing as a country.

Just another note, I received an email from Taunton Press (USA) about a rather good book they have about Cabinet Making. Their form when checking out said "USA/Canada" so I emailed them about the possibility of shiiping to Oz. ONE DAY.... read this gain.... ONE DAY after I emailed, I received a response, sorry, it said. I went back and chose AUSTRALIA from the list and bought 5 books for $15 postage. FIVE. For FIFTEEN BUCKS! Australian businesses are doomed, utterly doomed. There is no way on earth you would get an Australian business modifying their order process to accommodate an order to Uzbekistan or Chad.

So, RANT over! Sorry for that my fellow wood nerds, but this REALLY dug under my skin this week! Again, thanks Damienol, you add passion to my life and I owe you one.

[Humphrey9999]

Carbatec is now the exclusive Australian retailer of Jet Machinery.

Oooh Nooo

Is this the beginning of the demise of the Jet product in Australia? Do they have the knowledge and backup staff to service the product? Only time will tell.

Now I know why Gregory Machines didn't bother to answer my email queries regarding the Jet JDS-12 12" Disc Sander last month - they no longer sell them. (Still could have replied, though.)

I just checked and see that Carbatec only carry a tiny fraction of the Jet range. They don't have the JDS-12, so I'm stuck with the generic cheapies sold by Carbatec and H&F. Not at all happy with this development.

Exclusive Australian Retailer - sounds like the beginning of the end to me.

Edit: I just got through a minor dispute with Carbatec, which was only resolved when I informed them I would be taking the matter to the Dept of Fair Trading.

[Prle77]

Just to clarify regarding the bump thing...

Got my saw on wheeled base (where you step on two levers to get the thing rolling)
Few times (I have to admit) while lowering the saw down.. I was a bit.... hmmm... rough so it went down with a thump...

It could be that the bolts are not tightened (doubt it...) but will check it out...


the total tools (equipment) I've got to make my life easy is:

Digital fence measurement
Different fence
Incra mitre 1000HD (love that one)
Digital magnetic angle for blade
Deluxe allignment set (carbatec sells this) which is very precise... Got the saw accurate to 0.003 of an inch which is not bad
Digital mitre angle (used it to allign Incra to the blade...)

As you can see.. I've managed to convert completely analogue art of timber craft into digital... Like I'm in IT.. hehe (professional deformation) hehe

[nrb]

I have put my table saw,sander,joiner,router table onto casters,just the plastic ones with locks that cost about $5.60 a pair (50 Kg capacity).
I thought that they maybe not robust enough but after a few years they have stood up well,the good thing is they are very cheap compared to other ways.

[section1]

The ten inch is a good saw once its setup properly, the fence isn't bad but the measurements are in cm which I never understood why they're all like that. I went ahead and bought an LS32 from Carba tec they had four in stock at the time and I was told that these were sitting around for the last three years and they weren't going to be stocking them anymore. Maybe that's why you were mucked about, I also purchased a metric converter for the fence still that converter is sitting in the box as I have no idea how to set it up. Maybe I'll put it up for sale on the forum. The wings on the saw can never be set up properly anyone who claims they have should place an align it dial and check to see how un level it is. Also on my table the blade doesn't go all they way down under the zero clearance without the blade shifting to the left by 4mm. To fix it I have to pull the whole table apart and start filing some things I no longer remember what they are. One day I will take the saw up to them and they will do it for me.

Carba tec has been waiting along time to become distributors of Jet, Jet refused them for many years I wonder why the sudden change of heart. Personally I don't know what the rave is about Jet, they're nothing fantastic out of this world. I own a jet lathe and a thicknesser that's about the only Jet stuff I will ever own. Look I'm not bagging them because of some poor workmanship I just feel that they are ordinary tools that are produced in China and are over priced. What are you paying extra for ? If you look at the 10" Carba tec contractor saw and the jet 10" side by side they're identical, if the wings on the jet are absolutely level with the rest of the table then fair enough the workmanship is better but why should you pay an additional $500 for something that should be accurate anyway. I'm not blaming Carba tec in anyway what so ever, I'm glad they're around without them we woodworkers would be stuffed and they do offer reasonable service and are knowledgable people but if I had the money every machine I sold would be 100% percent perfect regardless of the price of the machine i sold and for a small additional price I would have their machine set up in their home or shop for them. That is good old fashioned service with a good bang for your buck.

I'm currently re examining my situation, seeing that I'm a hobbyist with a mountain of machinery crammed into a double lock up with very minimal space left for assembly and finishing I'm slowly churning over to hand tool use only. Once I perfect these tools I will sell up my machines free myself from the dependence on them. No dust, no noise, no neighbour worries, no council paranoia, no endless time consuming tuning to worry about, no safety concerns to deal with and so on. Just pure woodworking at its best and you can say I made this without the aid of any machinery. I believe as time goes by as my experience grows that I will be able to cut just as fast and accurate as any machine.

[Damienol]

Just to clarify regarding the bump thing...

Deluxe allignment set (carbatec sells this) which is very precise... Got the saw accurate to 0.003 of an inch which is not bad

As my skills improve and my projects demand greater accuracy I am noting more deficiencies in this saw. This is a beginners saw only. You will not win cabinet maker of the year using this saw.

-the fence really is very poor. Plenty of lateral movement with very little pressure.
- wing alignment is a challenge and you won't find anything in the manual on how to do it
- my biggest gripe at the moment (and that is because I have spent well over 10 hours this week ) is the alignment of the blade with the mitre slot. It is next to impossible. I would love to know how Prel77 manage such accuracy. I now also understand Prel77's previous comments on bumps to the motor. Even with all the bolts as tight as I can get them I can manage to mis-align the blade with a small hit to the motor with my hand !!!!!

[Damienol]

Just to clarify regarding the bump thing...


Deluxe allignment set (carbatec sells this) which is very precise... Got the saw accurate to 0.003 of an inch which is not bad

As my skills improve and my projects demand greater accuracy I am noting more deficiencies in this saw. This is a beginners saw only. You will not win cabinet maker of the year using this saw.


-the fence really is very poor. Plenty of lateral movement with very little pressure.
- wing alignment is a challenge and you won't find anything in the manual on how to do it
- my biggest gripe at the moment (and that is because I have spent well over 10 hours this week ) is the alignment of the blade with the mitre slot. It is next to impossible. I would love to know how Prel77 manage such accuracy. I now also understand Prel77's previous comments on bumps to the motor. Even with all the bolts as tight as I can get them I can manage to mis-align the blade with a small hit to the motor with my hand !!!!!
- there is also a fair bit of vibration

[section1]

I have this saw and it's true bump the motor hard enough it will go out of alignment and I said hard enough, the wings you will never get it level with the table I went out an bought an incra fence never looked back and don't need to upgrade the table either it cuts accurate very accurate actually. Having said that you need to remember that carba tec stock chinese models even Jet is made in China and this saw is a copy off the Jet model. If you really want something awesome look at hammer as for me I've switched to hand tools I don't have to fart #### around with stupid setups anymore and I'm as precise with it as any machine can be but that's just me I don't why I can't get the quality out of machines as I can with my hand I guess it's a blessing.

If you can afford it stay away from Chinese made products.