Table refinish...

[surfdabbler]

We have a dining table and the finish is gone yukky. When we got our new table, we thought to protect the finish by putting a plastic cover on it. So, we bought and fitted a PVC sheet, fixed to the table with velcro. Unfortunately, it has totally destroyed the finish under the plastic. The original finish is a matt finish - I would assume Nitro Lacquer. Now it is patchy with gloss sections where the finish is slightly sticky (we peel off the PVC when we have visitors), and soft. It can be marked with a fingernail.

I originally thought that maybe the finish had not aired properly after manufacture, so we removed the cover for a week to let it air again, and I tried wax polish (trad-wax and steel wool), but it really didn't help much.

So, I am now faced with the task of refinishing it, and I'd appreciate some advice. The legs are find, and too fiddly to be worth refinishing, so I need to get a good match to the existing finish.

The table is rubberwood, and a dark colour, so it's probably stained (because I believe rubberwood is actually quite light in colour).

My thoughts are to use a cabinet scraper to remove the finish, and then respray a nitro finish. I've had a little experience with spraying lacquer, so no problems there.

1) I'm not sure whether to use a gloss lacquer (which I already have), and then steel wool it with trad-wax. I've had good results with this approach on small surfaces, but I'm a little worried about whether this will work on a large surface, or whether it will look inconsistent.

2) The other choice is to get some 50%-70% gloss lacquer and use that for a more consistent finish, maybe use the gloss for the first coats, and the satin for the final coat.

3) Third choice, somebody recommended that I try a 2-pack finish for the best durability. I've got no ideas what to try for this. I've done a 2-pack floor before, but I've never sprayed 2-pack. What do you think of this idea? I would assume that I'd then have to trad-wax it, because the 2-pack is always gloss, right?

I've had problems with nitro on a soft pine table-top, where the wood was dented through use, and the nitro cracked on every dent. I've done another table top with nitro, and it was a nicer table. I used a thinner finish, on harder wood, and less beating, so it has lasted much better. The kitchen table is going to get some beating, but the rubber wood is quite hard, so maybe it will be fine. My lacquer is Wattyl Stylewood.

Well, that's a fair bit of info. What do you think? Any thoughts or suggestions?

TIA, Dave

[Master Splinter]

If its a stained finish, you might have to take care with the cabinet scraper or sanding as you don't really want to cut through to unstained timber - some of the 'stain' finishes that I've seen on commercial furniture are more like a thin coat of paint. Especially if the finish has already gone a bit funny.

I'm an old fuddy-duddy when it comes to finishes; oil, shellac and wax are my favorites because they are not a right pain in the a*se to remove when they get damaged - you just slap more on - so if it's a table thats in for a beating, they would be my suggestions. (The owner of this forum sells a hard shellac finish that may appeal to you)

If the table starts to look too bad, its the work of five minutes to put on some fresh wax - and your kitchen will smell of beeswax, eucalyptus or citrus rather than sillicone and methylbenzene phenylmethane toluol and 1,3-dimethylbenzene.

If you want to go with a high build, semi gloss finish that is absolute minimum maintennance and will take reasonable knocks without damage and won't have cracking or denting problems, rather than muck around with nitro or polyurethane or whatever, my trick is to put on a thin layer of contact adhesive (the gooey, smelly, tan coloured stuff) onto the surface and then apply a sheet of woodgrain laminex in the desired colour. My mum has a buffet that was done that way, and it still looks just like it did when it was new (which is about 40 years ago now).

Or there's the Minwax Rub-On polyurethane (avalable in the paint section in Bunnies) which has had good write-ups both on this forum and in publications like Fine Woodworking. This sounds like it is less of a fiddle to use than spraying on a finish.

[journeyman Mick]

I'm guessing that the original finish is a NC lacquer and that the PVC sheet has "gassed off" some of its constituent chemicals which have attacked the lacquer. I would try spraying a coat of lacquer thinners on to the top. Do this on a warm dry day (or in a climate controlled booth) This will melt the original lacquer and possibly allow it to release any nasties, it certainly works when there is a white bloom in the finish due to trapped moisture. Like Master Splinter, I'd be hesitant about attacking it with a scraper, if the thinners doesn't do it then a light sand with some 320# paper should do the trick as lacquer sands very easily. Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Mick

[smeds]

Hi there Surfdabbler, don't go down the 2pac path, this stuff may be great for kitchen doors but it's not that great on horizontal surfaces like bench and table tops. You will end up with the same probs as you did with the nitro finish you mentioned, while people think 2 pac is really hard and it is, but if you put it on a table top and then accidentally drop something you will end up with a nice ring left on the table top. What happens is that the force of the item you drop on it will seperate the 2pac from the table top leaving you with a ring as mentioned and you picking up the table in frustration after all your hard work taking it outside and setting fire to it.

[Iain]

Fine Woodworking No 171 has an article on poly finishing for table tops, wipe on with a rubber and diluted with 20-30% turps.
Time consuming with the number of coats and cutting back but seems well worth the trouble if you want a good poly finish that doesn't look like a poly finish, extremely durable which is what we all want, if you are happy to put in a lot of hours.

[powderpost]

The finish I have used for table and coffee table tops for the past twenty odd years is two coats of polyurethane (estapol if you like) lightly sanded between coats. When thoroughly dry (about a week), rubbed down with 400# wet and dry, wet with danish oil. This will stand up to regular use and is heat resistant (not heat proof), and also the eternal circle from grog stains. I have a black bean dining table that was finished this way, that is about 15 years old and has survived daily use including dress making attacks. It is lightly rubbed down with a light commercial oil (O'cedar) about every week. I would use a cabinet scraper to remove the old finish to the point where the table top is back to wood and an even colour. Re-stain if needed then apply the finish above.
Jim

[journeyman Mick]

.............I have a black bean dining table that was finished this way, that is about 15 years old and has survived daily use including dress making attacks...........

Jim,
how do you find time for dress making on top of all the other stuff you do?

Mick
P.S. You don't wear them as well do you?

[powderpost]

Mick, I do hope you are the only one that noticed that....
Jim

[journeyman Mick]

Mick, I do hope you are the only one that noticed that....
Jim

Jim,
I reckon if you go to Mareeeba wearing a dress there will be plenty of people noticing it.

Mick

[surfdabbler]

Update...

Well, I scraped the table today. It went pretty well. The damaged finish seemed to be the top two coats, which came off very distinctly from the last coat underneath. The last coat was nice and hard, and the scraper stopped very easily without really cutting into the last coat.

I slightly suspicious that they mixed the stain in with the first nitro coat, because the few small spots where I went through the last coat, the wood was quite light coloured. Maybe that's what protected the last coat from going sticky. Anyway, some small touch-up stain on a few spots and it's looking good. I've sanded it down, and it's ready for the nitro tomorrow.

I tried the steel-wool and trad-wax on part of the existing coating, and on the large flat surface, you can definitely see the swirl-marks. I'm not going to do that on the whole table top - it will look terrible. I have some 100% gloss precat nitro, so I'll use that for the first coat, and I'll get some 40-50% gloss nitro for the final coat.

Any suggestions to recoat nitro? Do I need to wipe with solvent or anything like that to soften the old nitro, or just sand and recoat?

[journeyman Mick]

Just a light sand with #320 frecut paper, blow dust off, wipe with a tack rag (buy from automotive refinisher supplies or buy Neil's book to see how to make your own) and spray away. Others may reccomend more prep work but I get perfectly adequate results like this.

Mick

[durwood]

Be careful!!!

The finish doesn't sound like Nitro lacquer to me.

When you spray lacquer the previous coat is redisolved by the new coat, the coats join together to form one coat. It would normally be impossible to lift the top ones off underlying ones.

I suspect the finish is an enamel of sorts which would be put one as separate coats which would only dry by themselves and have a key to the previous ones via nateral stickyness. If they were a different type from the first it could be why they messed up and not the first one.

If the coat on there now is not lacquer the solvent may attack and fry up the old finish.

You should do a check to be sure you won't end up with an even bigger problem.

If the paint is lacquer it will dissolve with some thinner. Put a bit on a rag ( somewhere which if it messes up will not cause you grief) if it is lacquer it will soften and go sticky. If its something else you should be able to see if it is is affected by the solvent.

Air drying varnishes or enamels will bubble up, if it was a good two pack product the solvent will not affect it. In that case sanding as Mick has suggested will allow the lacquer to adhere.

[journeyman Mick]

sorry, Durwood is right, I should've picked that up (bit distracted at the moment) the coats that peeled off can't be nitro, test teh rtemaining coat as per Durwood's suggestions.

Mick

[surfdabbler]

Well, I just put on the first coat. I don't know for sure what was on there, but whatever it is, it's covered now. Interestingly, in a few patches where the finish was not attacked, it definitely wasn't coming off in coats. It would have been a very easy job if the whole table was evenly ruined. In a few of the good spots, I went through to the wood, and had to restain, so there's a few spots with a slight reddish tinge to them.

I got some 30% matt-satin nitro, and this stuff looks great! I've struggled with gloss finish in the past, and it's really difficult to get a good result. The matt finish is much more forgiving.

As far as the spraying goes, I've forgotten what little I learnt from my previous spraying experiences, so I'm learning all over again now. I got some very minor orange peel and a lot of overspray, so i've dropped the pressure down to about 10-15psi (was about 25). Seems very low now, but it's still spraying OK. I just can't get much volume at this pressure, so I gotta go fairly slow (about 50cm/sec), and only take about 5cm on each pass.

[durwood]

What type of gun are you using?