MinWax water-based WOP problem

[Hermit]

I bought a new bottle of MinWax satin water-based WOP last week, and found that it appears to be a different formula. It looks very different, not ochre-coloured but much paler and sort of milky. I thought it might have been a dud, but noticed that they're also now using a different lid, so assumed it was just a different-looking formula.
It went on as usual, but dried with more gloss than usual, too much for satin, and sort of patchy.

Has anyone else had this problem?

I tipped a bit of the new stuff and some of the old stuff on paper and took a pic:

wop.JPG

[wheelinround]

Steve I picked some up from Masters on the weekend and seems there is a difference yet tins look identical re-check tins-bottles and I'd say return if need be.

[Hermit]

Steve I picked some up from Masters on the weekend and seems there is a difference yet tins look identical re-check tins-bottles and I'd say return if need be.

Thanks for the reply Ray. Does your's have the same plastic bottle, (water-based), but a different lid? If it's the same as mine, I'll be interested to hear how well it goes on. I applied it the same as always, directly after a good coat from the previous bottle and a light sand with 600g as usual, and it looked like @#$%.

I contacted Globak 11 days ago and Steve said he'd replace it, but didn't and hasn't answered any of my two emails since. Not sure what's going on, but it looks like I'll be giving MinWax a miss in the future. About time I gave shellac a whirl anyway, and definitely way past time I gave UBeaut more support, so I think it'll be UBeaut hard shellac for me from now on.

[david.elliott]

Having never used it before my failure to get a non patchy result I figured was down to me...and I put on 4 coats.
It seemed to dry off much too quick, even going over the areas coated. Every coat resulted in a different area being patchy...
Thought I was overworking it, changed tack, still same...
Went and bought the opposition, Feast and Watson, I think.
A different animal altogether...and I achieved a great result..finally.

[Hermit]

Having never used it before my failure to get a non patchy result I figured was down to me...and I put on 4 coats.
It seemed to dry off much too quick, even going over the areas coated. Every coat resulted in a different area being patchy...
Thought I was overworking it, changed tack, still same...
Went and bought the opposition, Feast and Watson, I think.
A different animal altogether...and I achieved a great result..finally.

Maybe you got a bad bottle too. I've been using it on almost everything for a couple of years and it's usually very good and goes on pretty evenly. I have bottles of MinWax water-based gloss and oil-based satin WOP as well and they're fine, it's just this one bottle of water-based satin.

Steve at Globak said it must be a bad bottle when I first contacted him, but then didn't follow up.

I was using it on a plate that I want to enter in my woodies' club exhibition in a couple of weeks, but haven't been able to finish it.
I thought about using the oil-based over the water-based so I can finish it off, but I'm not sure if that's a good idea. (I asked Steve if that was OK in one of my emails, but since he's not replying I still don't know.) I don't want to finish it in the water-based gloss - too shiny.

Oh well, life wasn't meant to be easy, was it?

If I use poly again, it looks like it'll be FW or even Estapol before I waste my $ on MinWax.

[david.elliott]

My conundrum was that I did not know what a "good bottle" acts like, so it lead to much gnashing of teeth and hand sanding after each coat that was not up to scratch... and recoating with a different method, only to sand again and... repeat and ... ad nauseum...

[Hermit]

My conundrum was that I did not know what a "good bottle" acts like, so it lead to much gnashing of teeth and hand sanding after each coat that was not up to scratch... and recoating with a different method, only to sand again and... repeat and ... ad nauseum...

Yeah, I know what you mean - I went through that when my bad bottle arrived.

On the good side, I finally got a reply from Steve Gentle at Globak a few minutes ago. He's just sent the replacement bottle and I should have it on Thursday, in plenty of time to finish my piece for the exhibition.

I think I'd better retract this, too:

If I use poly again, it looks like it'll be FW or even Estapol before I waste my $ on MinWax.

I'll still get some UBeaut hard shellac, though. I've been meaning to step up and try it for a while, but been slack.

[wheelinround]

Sreve I bought the tins not the plastic bottles have not used as yet to damn cold out there. One is gold lable one is silver these equate to Satin and Gloss. My old large tin is going off and I have to keep adding thinners/turps. it is and old resealable type tin plastic stopper.

I have always found ambient temps play hell with all finishes WoP even more so. Give me a quick drying lacquer anyday.

[Hermit]

Sreve I bought the tins not the plastic bottles have not used as yet to damn cold out there. One is gold lable one is silver these equate to Satin and Gloss. My old large tin is going off and I have to keep adding thinners/turps. it is and old resealable type tin plastic stopper.

I have always found ambient temps play hell with all finishes WoP even more so. Give me a quick drying lacquer anyday.

Yeah mate, I've been having troubles with the cold lately, trying to get the oil-based stuff to dry. I used it on the pot I just finished. Takes 24 hours or it'll clog the paper too quickly when sanding between coats. The water-based version is much faster drying and better to sand, despite the fact that both labels say 'sand and recoat in 3 hours'. In my opinion the oil-based gives the best finish though.

Gotta get on my bike and brave that blasting cold wind for a ride into town shortly. Not looking forward to it.

[Hermit]

I just thought I'd finish this topic with a plug for Globak. I received the replacement bottle of water-based satin WOP yesterday, along with a bonus tin of oil-based satin WOP. Steve looked after me well.

Very generous of him, and it'll be put to good use - I like to use oil-based on timbers that kick up their grain too much from the initial coats of water-based.

Good PR too, since I'm writing about it here.

[wheelinround]

Steve I have used the gloss tin I bought on some pens I am doing ATM.

Its NOT the water based type NOR is it the Hand Rubbed type this can be thinned using either thinners OR Turps.

Has come up a treat on first one finished I'll post pics when all are done. Drying time all up about 4 hrs even in cold weather we are having but I have been leaving overnight before sanding and applying 2nd coat.

Double check the tins you got as to what they are. The tins all look similar in colour and label until you READ each one carefuly I nearly picked up one which was water based.

[Hermit]

Steve I have used the gloss tin I bought on some pens I am doing ATM.

Its NOT the water based type NOR is it the Hand Rubbed type this can be thinned using either thinners OR Turps.

Has come up a treat on first one finished I'll post pics when all are done. Drying time all up about 4 hrs even in cold weather we are having but I have been leaving overnight before sanding and applying 2nd coat.

Double check the tins you got as to what they are. The tins all look similar in colour and label until you READ each one carefuly I nearly picked up one which was water based.

Mine are all wipe-on. I'm hopeless with a brush and my compressor isn't up to spraying. I never mix up oil-based with water-based - in the 473ml size oil-based is in a tin can and water-based in a plastic bottle.
I do, however, often mix up gloss with satin on the last coat.
(The earlier coats don't matter, I use whatever I have the most of.)

I was reading the MinWax FAQ on the Globak website and it says it's OK to use oil-based poly over water-based and vice versa, too, as long as the first application is well dry. Handy for timbers where the grain raises badly when a water-based finish is applied - First two quick coats of oil-based to seal the timber, then nice clean water-based for any consecutive coats, so there's no solvent stink.

I'll have to keep an eye out for your pens. And remember to visit the pen-making section from time to time. Since I don't make them myself, I never think to drop in.

I'm working on my vacuum chuck system today. Almost finished, thank God. I just turned the handwheel parts to take the bearing assembly. Worked well and the bearings are a beautiful fit. (My mate made that assembly up for me - two 47.5mm x 13mm bearings pressed onto a brass rod that's drilled through and has a 1/4" BSP female tapered thread at one end for the hose fitting. He did a great job of it.)
Just waiting for the last couple of brass fittings to arrive and I can finally assemble it all.

[old_picker]

just checked masters catalogue and they list minwax wb wop but not ob - so where are you guys getting it?
also is the water based stuff no good? or not as good as the ob?

[Hermit]

just checked masters catalogue and they list minwax wb wop but not ob - so where are you guys getting it?
also is the water based stuff no good? or not as good as the ob?

I get mine online from Globak, (Also a forum sponsor.)

The water-based and oil-based come up pretty similar when dry.

Oil-based is slower drying, which can be an advantage on a hot day, but is smelly (solvent) and needs turps or white spirits for cleanup. Doesn't raise the timber grain much during application. You can use fine steel wool to denib between coats with this one, too.

Water-based is a quicker drying, clean-smelling and only needs water for cleanup. The downside of this one is that it raises the grain, sometimes badly, when applying the first coat. No steel wool between coats with this one, or the minute specks left behind can rust and cause staining. All sanding between coats must be done with conventional paper. I use 600g.

Personally, I like the water-based and mostly use only that, unless I'm working with a timber that goes too rough when it's applied.

Edit: I think that Bunnings might have it as well.
Carroll's Woodcraft Supplies also carry it, here.

[old_picker]

i was in bunnings yesterday and notice a lot of the wood care and finishing products have disappeared since the big shake up a few weeks ago
miter 10 dont carry much these days either except for the similar miles of "stain and varnish" and the regular big name poly varieties

btw who do globak use to ship their products - if it is a courier thats a deal breaker for me