The coolest fretsaw.

[derekcohen]

Over the past month I've been discussing cutting dovetails and fretsaws with Lee Marshall, the designer at New Concepts .

Lee offers three sizes of fretsaw - 3", 5" and 8" - in a novel design that is aimed at creating a rigid, non-flexing aluminium frame. These are light fretsaws for the jewelry industry and serious hobbiests. A few woodworkers have discovered his saws, and I have little doubt that many will soon be queuing up for one of them.

Lee mentioned to me that he also had a titanium model in the works. "The Titanium frame is my attempt to "turn swords into plowshares". The material that I have access to is 1/8" thick that was left over from the F-22 fighter."

I was going to purchase the 8" model, but at this point decided to wait for the titanium to go into production. It would be stiffer than the aluminium, which is a Good Thing in this type of saw.

Anyway, I received a email from Lee a couple of days ago to say that he was sending me a package ... a titanium fretsaw, an earlier prototype, the design of which has been improved, so this saw was not for sale and a gift. "It was cut pretty early in the design stage and is now obsolete. I have made numerous changes that make it even stronger, lighter, and that also increase ease of use."

It arrived today. It will get blooded this weekend. I just wanted to share this beautiful, really cool fretsaw with all. Damn it is cool!



Close up of the clamping mechanism ..




Regards from Perth

Derek

[beer is good]

Hi Derek,
Yes it is very cool.... I don't suppose there is any indication of price yet?

[Pops]

Hi Derek,

Yes, way cool. Even looks like it came from an aircraft.

Cheers
Pops

[fletty]

Derek,
cool? ... damned cool, BUT I expect to see a far more appropriate turned jarrah handle on it before you even use it!
fletty

[Denim]

Hi Derek,
Yes it is very cool.... I don't suppose there is any indication of price yet?

I'm assuming (and could be wrong) that the final version is for sale already. $57 isn't bad when you consider it's properties.

Thanks for the heads-up Derek.


Denim.

[Pat]

Denim, that looks to be the Ali version at the seppo price. I expect the Ti version to be a tad dearer, still in seppo $$$.

[lightwood]

Over the past month I've been discussing cutting dovetails and fretsaws with Lee Marshall, the designer at New Concepts .



Derek

Derek, a few days ago I typed a reply to this thread, and deleted it because I had included a comment on the openness of the corners and how a strut at 45 deg would make it much more rigid. My experience with space frame designs many years ago would make that element the first one drawn...then I thought a couple of know-it-alls would jump on me for even that mild criticism. ( you know how that can happen)
However, now I see the final product, the designer came up with the same solution!

That said...
If someone asked me..hahahah...
I would ask for a saw-frame that takes up no space at all, ideally a handle to fit my hand, and no frame...it's forever getting in the way....not one that takes up more space. Even the littlest one I use with the smallest cross-section gets in the way more times than I'm happy with.

I've used a jeweller's saw almost daily for 35 years and whenever I've picked up a lightweight saw-frame it doesn't make the control any better. I've also put jeweller's saws in the hands, for the very first time, of at least 30 separate individuals over the years. That includes mature aged folk and prospective apprentices. Only one was able to cut the head out of a coin without breaking a blade, and only 2 or 3 did a competent enough job at it first time around.
I think the successful use of a saw like these has more to do with technique than the saw itself.
Much more helpful would be good instructions about how it should be held, how your body is positioned, and how you feel the feedback from the cutting blade.
I guess it comes down to my usual hobby-horse...the best made and engineered tool won't compensate for inadequate technique. So many of these tools are marketed to folk who are time poor, and they want instant expertise in a skill.
Nothing substitutes for good instructions in the use of traditional tools, then practice to make perfect.
Sometimes I think I need to find one of the old time jewellers for some remedial saw-frame lessons to iron out some bad habits I've learned over the years. I wish this fellow was alive still....
Here is an example of how good it can get, not my work sadly.
And here he was in 1939 doing it...
I have to get even closer to see what I'm doing, so can you see how such a large frame, like the one proposed, would cause an issue bumping into my head?
In the blurb on his web-page he says they are red because it "promotes accuracy"
That had me laughing out loud.

Oh well,

Too much "said" already...
This is the kind of thing I make with the old fashioned steel coloured saws...


Regards,
Peter
Peter McBride Goldsmith Jeweller

[jimbur]

So you're not joining the queue then Peter?
Cheers,
Jim

[Claw Hama]

Hmm, once again like the LV saws and block planes, a bit too space age for me. Brass maybe but in Ti you should be able to make a standard single rail I would have thought. I was lucky and picked up an old one at the markets for $5 but it is realy strong and has a lovely handle far better quality than I have ever felt in any fret/ copeing saw. All it says on it is "Made in Australia"

Lovely work Peter, keep up the hand work they will all be lazer cut soon I imagine

[SiJ]

Totally agree with your sentiments Peter, and btw beautiful work. Real delicacy of touch.

[derekcohen]

Hi Peter

I have found, since using this fretsaw, that I can churn out work like yours without much difficulty. It is not complex at all. Zip zap and you are done. Easy-peazy

Peter, some of us need all the help we can get. You talk about technique, I don't disagree, but I have used a great many fretsaws and can honestly say that most are pretty shonky with regards rigidity. I'll take rigidity any day in the absence of skill! The extra tension that one gets with this saw compared with my jeweller's saw is like chalk and cheese.



I have used this vintage jeweller's saw for several years. It is a good saw and I get good results, but it is small and I wanted something with a greater depth of cut (without have to twist the blades). One of the design mods I have suggested to Lee is the capability to angle the blade, as one can do with a coping saw. An 8" depth of cut would then not be necessary and a smaller saw could be used.

By the way, lest you think I did not notice, that is fantastic work. The truth is that you could use a breadknife to cut dovetails and make it look easy.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Lignum]

Too much "said" already...
This is the kind of thing I make with the old fashioned steel coloured saws...
Regards,
Peter
Peter McBride Goldsmith Jeweller

The admiration I have for jewellers is massive. The pics you have shown justify that. Beautiful work Peter

[lightwood]

I have used this vintage jeweller's saw for several years. It is a good saw and I get good results, but it is small and I wanted something with a greater depth of cut (without have to twist the blades)
Derek

G'day Derek,
Is twisting the blade that much more difficult than anything else in the woodworker's / hand-worker's arsenal, that it should be rejected, and a new tool be designed and made to avoid doing it?
For heaven's sake, if person can't put a 45 degree twist in each end of a fret saw blade with a pair of pliers...perhaps it's better they put the tools down and go back to the study of politics, law or economics, because they sure aren't up to pulling 'n pushing a saw back and forth.
Is the magnificent renaissance in handmade work to be forever hijacked by the marketing of space-age tools. Better to get the basics right, and then perseverance and practice will let you fly with the eagles, otherwise ANY tool designed specifically to compensate for inadequate technique will tether you to the ground forever.

I worship at the alter of hand work, and actually make thing by hand daily, taught plenty of kids, tried to nurture the passion in a generation of handmade jewellery practitioners...can you understand how I feel about the unwelcome passengers, who hitch themselves to the wagon.
Regards,
Peter
PS... Derek, I find the typing of these principle of work interesting, and civil discussion refreshing. Too often my passion for it is misunderstood. One day perhaps we can sit across the table from each other and have a spirited discussion over a glass or two of a favorite beverage....sad we are at different sides of the country, but I'm sure we aren't actually on different sides of the fence

[derekcohen]

Hi Peter

I understand your passion and share your view that skill needs to be nurtured before tools. However I have not had a good experience with twisting blades. In fact I have not had a good experience with some blades at all. This was brought home to me today as I took a few minutes while glued dried to saw out the waste in a few test dovetails with a couple of different fretsaws and different blades. Some of the blades were impossible to keep to a line, even with every attempt to guide the cut by altering the angle of the saw. A good blade on a poor saw is much better than a poor blade on a good saw. Twisting the blade just compounded the problem.

Interestingly, the Eclipse 18 tpi blades from Bunnings did OK. They are a little on the thick side compared to the blade that came with the NC fretsaw (which is, I think, about 80 tpi!). The NC blade was amazingly accurate and cut reasonably quickly in spite of the high tpi.

I will post pictures later. This is just a quick reply to your post.

Oh, yes, a glass of Margaret River cab sav would be nice to share ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

[lightwood]

I will post pictures later. This is just a quick reply to your post.
Oh, yes, a glass of Margaret River cab sav would be nice to share ...
Regards from Perth
Derek

Derek,
20 years ago I would fly to Perth and go ocean sailing at least one a year with an old school friend, and way down south there is a small town with a bottle shop walking distance from the beach. I remember stocking up there with local reds on more than a few trips.
Back to saws...
German made 150mm jeweller's saw frame in tool steel, cost about $30.00 last year, from a local jeweller's tool supplier. I bought this one for myself, and one for a friend, got him the 200mm one. This is the first time I have used this saw to do this, I bought it for a different job altogether. I really prefer to twist the blade in a smaller frame though.
Love that steel colour...perhaps I should paint it red?
With this one I can do 10 or 11 inch boards without twisting the blade.
I used one blade for these two samples in 19mm Jarrah, and it was struggling a bit at the end. I would replace now to make the work go quick on the next cut.
This is how I see the job in wood.
On the jeweller's work bench this large saw frame is horrible for me to use as a jeweller's saw, it is forever knocking me on the scone...and that jumbo side, red horror-saw would probably have my eye out
Regards,
Peter