What do You Think ?.

[issatree]

Hi All,
I seem to have a Problem.
I am a Member of The Geelong Community Shed, & recently I Brazed a New Blade for the Bandsaw, in The Shed.
I was talking to a friend & this came up, about The Brazing, & he told me I was a bit Game doing that, as with the way thing are now, I'm putting my head on the Chopping Block.
So I asked another Friend what he thought, & he agreed, that I could get into trouble if something went wrong.
Now, I've had my B/Saw since 1987, & not always, but I have broken a Blade.
The only thing that I have experienced with a broken blade, is ;
1. It frightens the hell out of you.
2. It stops Immediately, & the blade goes nowhere.
3. I can't see a problem.
4. I am charging them Money, for the Blade, & a pittance at that.

So, what do you think, am I silly for doing them a Favor ???.

Regards,
issatree.
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[Wood Borer]

Unless your friends offering sincere and well meaning advice are insurance brokers and particularly the insurance brokers for the organisation I wouldn't take their advice very seriously.

I suggest that you contact the insurance broker that covers the organisation to discuss your issue. They are the ones who will decide if a claim can be paid, not your mates or anyone else no matter how well meaning they might be.

[jimbur]

Where do you stop? Do you have to refuse to sharpen a chisel or a plane blade for someone?
Regards,
Jim

[Lyle]

Hard call but I'd tend to agree with them.
Is it your bandsaw that is in a 'club' facility? Is it used by club members? Are they trained in its' use? Is it guarded as per the original equipment manufacturers specification?
Are you charging a fee to make the new saw blade (even if it is a pittance)?


I agree that you should get the club to check with their insurers. I know it is a pain but always err onto the side of "can I get my arxxse sued if something goes wrong"!

[HavinaGo]

I'd say they lawyers can be a pest but as it is they who make/argue/bend the rules then we need to understand their opinions.

In terms of making sense of the space I would have thought some form of risk assessment is needed - I'm not skilled enough to do it but I recall there are 2 facets that need to be considered

1) What is the likely-hood of a problem
(ie blade breaks and does not cut
blade breaks and an edge catches on the operator
blade twists and falls off pulley
blade breaks and a piece flies through the air
etc etc

and then for each

2) what is the likely severity of the injury resulting.

having done that for the use of a bandsaw, how does a "repaired blade" affect the risks and severity of injury.

If there is little change - no probs

My guess is that a well performed brazed join will increase the heat affected area of the blade and so the risk of a break goes up a bit but as it is across the whole blade, the break will leave the machine inoperative and not throwing bits around the shop.
A bad join will just break.

(my experience from joining a metal cutting bandsaw blade)

What are the failure modes and injury modes that need to be considered?

Here is hoping the legal stuff does not get in the way of a good service to the club.

[Keith_W]

Few things that should be looked at.
1. Does the Bandsaw conform to the latest Australian Standard for Bandsaws e.g. E/Stop, Guards etc
2. Is there a Work Instruction on how to operate the Bandsaw. Is there a clause on what to do in the event of a breakage or other incident.
3. Do the operators of the saw completed the Work Instruction and sign-off on it.

If the repair of the blade meets any condition in the Standard and the users of the Bandsaw have signed off on the Work Instruction then it would take most of the onus off you issatree. As HavinaGo has said I would see what the Insurers for the Member of The Geelong Community Shed have to say about the Bandsaw and if they are ok with the condition of the Bandsaw and the instructions for the use of the Bandsaw then you could be in the clear issatree.

Regards,
Keith.

[BobL]

. . . . . the break will leave the machine inoperative and not throwing bits around the shop.
A bad join will just break.

I agree.

A comprehensive risk analysis will clearly show the most dangerous thing they do that day will be if they drive to the shed.

[27saxophone]

With respect, we seem to be confusing a risk assessment with legal liability.

A legal case is probably only going to arise on an allegation of negligence (leaving out any misrepresention). To succeed in claiming negligence in the case of a broken join, the club would have to show that you owed them a duty; you breached that duty; and there was damage. The duty you owe (without citing references) is that of a person holding themselves out as competent to braze a blade.

If you are reasonably competent, and you don't do anything silly, there should be no liability even if something untoward happens. So unless you are half-cut when you do the work, or do a really half-baked job, you should be right.

The FMEA is still worth the effort if it keeps someone safe in the unlikely event that a blade fails for whatever reason. And if the saw itself is unsafe, and you advised the Club of that, any damage resulting from use of the saw is their problem. Not that it's going to be any comfort to three-finger Joe when the guard comes off ...

IMO, you should be quite safe to braze away as long as you are doing a decent job of it. However, many neg cases hang not on whether the procedure was risky but on whether the client knew it was risky. If it adds some comfort, consider advising the club (in writing) that there is always a risk with this kind of machinery and while you have done a tradesman-like job, they should assess the machine safety for themselves.

Cheers,


Disclaimer: Of course, in all these matters there might be other issues that you have not revealed, and which might change this advice. A formal opinion should be sought from a legal practitioner if this advice is to be relied upon.