Cutting coves without moulding planes

[AnthonySeiver]

Hi all

I am seeking advice on cutting coves in moulding without a snipe bill, set of hollows and rounds or other moulding planes. And no, this the hand tool forum so running a board at an angle across my table saw blade to form the cove is not an option.

I have seen that you can remove the bulk of the waste with bench planes and rabbet planes (which I have), and then create step rabbets in roughly the shape of the cove using rabbet planes. It's at this point that smart woodworkers pull out an appropriately sized round moulding plane and takes out the steps and finishes forming the cove. Trying to chase on a new moulding plane (HNT Gordon for example) or used plane for this one task seems like overkill. (I have also found buying used moulding planes to be frustrating as sellers just describe them as "moulding planes" or "wooden planes" with no details of what they actually are, and the photos usually add no clarity.)

Can I do it without moulding planes, and if so how?

Should I just chase a moulding plane as the alternatives are too sketchy?

Thanks

Anthony

[Mountain Ash]

Hi AS. You could do as you have described and use a shop made scraper to clean up. A lot of work but doable if you are only after short lengths. Type of wood will either help or hinder.

[AnthonySeiver]

Hi AS. You could do as you have described and use a shop made scraper to clean up. A lot of work but doable if you are only after short lengths. Type of wood will either help or hinder.

A scraper could be the trick. I was thinking a gouge but that wouldn't leave a uniform finish. It's straight grained Victorian Ash in 800 mm lengths.

Thanks for the tip

[auscab]

Rough it out with the hand planes then shape a blade like a scraper but fit it into a wooden holder and you have a scratch stock.
Then use a scraper .
Or make a basic Chinese style moulding plane like the Louey woon type . A block of wood and a shaped chisel . Hand Tool Preservation Association of Australia Inc. - Chinese Plane Makers

I’ve seen basic moulders done like that but can’t find a picture.

[Bushmiller]

Anthony

You could modify a wooden shoulder plane to be a cove cutter fairly easily. I did this for a cove cutting job a little while back. This is fairly cheap if you already have such a plane to spare and only a little more expensive if you have to track one down.

You mentioned that you were not enamoured by the table saw method, so I am presuming you are equally unreceptive to cove cutters in a router.

Regards
Paul

[auscab]

These pics may inspire you to do try making something .
I asked a Louey Woon collector friend for some pictures.
Basic looking planes but they worked. There was of course a big Chinese made furniture thing going on in Melbourne after the gold ran out on the goldfields. And they produced their own planes. The established locals who didn't like the cheaper competition probably wouldn't sell them anything like tools. Edit.Or maybe there was no moulding plane supplier in Melbourne around that time?

IMG_3152.JPG IMG_3153.jpg

IMG_3156.jpg IMG_3157.jpg IMG_3158.jpg

This is from eBay UK . A simple way of doing it with some planning required for the chip relief for what you want.
s-l1600lk.jpg

[D.W.]

you need to be able to trace the profile on the end (both ends) of a stick that you're going to cut and work the profile from end to end relatively evenly.

There are a lot of ways you could do it - but probably only two are common - carving and scraping or planing. Everything other than moulding planes is going to be harder, but even with moulding planes, most of the job is removing waste to minimize how much you use the planes.

As in plow planing out most of the waste after you can no longer saw or bench plane anything without damaging the profile. that would leave you with a bunch of 90 degree nibs to deal with. They could be removed with a carving gouge and scrapers or sanding. if you select wood properly, this isn't really that big of an ask. if you don't have good straight wood that can be plowed and chiseled down grain, it'll be rough going.

[IanW]

I love those planes Rob! They didn't waste time on a single thing that isn't necessary, did they? I would've removed the tangs & teth from the files - it wouldn't have added to funtion, I suppose, but might have made them a little safer to pick up....

I'll add my voice for scratch-stocks, one of the handiest multi-tools there is. Not super-practical for a busy commercial shop, but ideal for amateurs. You can make any moulding you can imagine from simple beads & astragals to complex mouldings, anything is possible:

4 fence.jpg 2 beader.jpg

There are a couple of caveats - some woods scrape way better than others (I haven't used mountain ash but if you select the right bits it should scrape ok) & as others have said, removing as much of the waste as you can by other means will save much effort. Complex mouldings are probably better done in stages using separate profiles - you can do them with a single profile but it gets to be hard work on something like a crown moulding.

Cut up an old hard-point hand saw for blades. No need to muck about with turning burrs, just file the edges as cleanly as you can with as fine files as you have. It's not a very steep learning curve, I predict you'll find it easier than you think, & the results can be very convincing...

Cheers,

[AnthonySeiver]

Anthony


You mentioned that you were not enamoured by the table saw method, so I am presuming you are equally unreceptive to cove cutters in a router.

Regards
Paul

Thanks Paul. This is a "hand tools only" project (save for dimensioning the rough sawn timber).

[Chief Tiff]

How big does the cove need to be?

[Bushmiller]

Thanks Paul. This is a "hand tools only" project (save for dimensioning the rough sawn timber).

Anthony

As I thought.

I made up a cove moulding plane from an old shoulder plane:

Cove cutter 1.jpgCove cutter 2.jpgCove cutter 3.jpgCove cutter 4.jpgCove cutter 5.jpg

It started life as a simple shoulder plane, which I shaped to suit. I think it lacked a blade and I used a shoulder plane blade I had previously made from an old car leaf spring. Even though considerably thicker than the original would have been, (more than twice as thick) it still did not close up the mouth. If I was going to use it more, I would glue up a packing piece ahead of the blade. The blade too was re-ground to suit the cove. However, it served it's purpose for the project at the time. Yes, it was and still is fairly crude.

Shoulder planes are more easily sourced than the cove cutting planes.

Regards
Paul

[AnthonySeiver]

How big does the cove need to be?

Not sure of size, sorry. The profile (in inches) is attached. Cove just above the lower bead.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[AnthonySeiver]

Not sure of size, sorry. The profile (in inches) is attached. Cove just above the lower bead.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Try a higher res version

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[IanW]

Apologies for being a bore Paul, but I think the plane you modified was just an ordinary rebate plane. Wooden shoulder planes were made, according to one of my books (it just mentions them without an illustration so I have no idea what a wooden SP looks like), but they apparently had a lower-angle blade than regular rebate planes. The "real" low-angle bevel-up Sps need the support of metal & had to wait until the 19th C to make their formal debut (in the English-speaking world, at least).

Not that that should detract from your excellent bit of making-do, you do have a wonderful knack for getting jobs done with whatever you have on hand! .

My book also mentions rounds being made from rebate planes by users & the giveaway is the odd-shaped mouth that results. Tbh, if you really want a fine mouth on yours it would probably be easier to start from scratch & make a new body. Mountain Ash has paved the way there.....

Cheers,

[Bushmiller]

Apologies for being a bore Paul, but I think the plane you modified was just an ordinary rebate plane. Wooden shoulder planes were made, according to one of my books (it just mentions them without an illustration so I have no idea what a wooden SP looks like), but they apparently had a lower-angle blade than regular rebate planes. The "real" low-angle bevel-up Sps need the support of metal & had to wait until the 19th C to make their formal debut (in the English-speaking world, at least).

Not that that should detract from your excellent bit of making-do, you do have a wonderful knack for getting jobs done with whatever you have on hand! .

My book also mentions rounds being made from rebate planes by users & the giveaway is the odd-shaped mouth that results. Tbh, if you really want a fine mouth on yours it would probably be easier to start from scratch & make a new body. Mountain Ash has paved the way there.....

Cheers,

Thanks Ian

Planes are not an area of expertise for me and you may well have caught me out there. This particular plane looked just like the HNT Gordon shoulder planes I have, for shape that is, except they have a brass body so I assumed it was the same.

The job I made the plane for turned out to be a lot more exacting than I had anticipated and I was reluctant to spend any more time on it.

I have made a shoulder plane in the past from scratch

Ironbark shoulder plane 001.jpgIronbark shoulder plane 002.jpg

......or was it a common all garden rebate plane?



Regards
Paul