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18th June 2014, 09:19 PM #1Skwair2rownd
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Home made Wetstone system or CBN wheel??
I have considered making a wetstone grinding system and would like some opinions.
I have a 1/6hp motor that runs at 1475rpm. I can gear this down to suitable speeds with pulleys.
I was wondering about the size of the bars on the Record and other rigs so that i could make use of their jigs.
I think, from what I have researched that the Record jigs are the least expensive of the jigs. They also seem to be well made.
The second choice would be a CBN wheel and try to rig up some bars on the high speed grinder to take the Jigs mentioned above.
What say the experts????
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18th June 2014, 10:35 PM #2
Go for the CBN wheel in a wet bath with the tormek jigs.
The motor you have must have good low down torque
Dont go cheap jigs, false economyJim Carroll
One Good Turn Deserves Another. CWS, Vicmarc, Robert Sorby, Woodcut, Tormek, Woodfast
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19th June 2014, 08:55 AM #3SENIOR MEMBER
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Go the CBN wheel if your the only one in your workshop! Some banana will inevitably debur something soft on it if you share it!
Sorry, I will be a little more serious now! I would go the CBN wheel. Whetstone sharpeners do a fantastic job but require more maintainence.
Why not buy the elcheapo bunnings whetstone and make the CBN grinder. That way you have both solutions. Make up a set of jigs that run both machines.
I did see a video once where they used a water dripper and paintbrush on top of the stone as the cooling and flushing system. The reason they went this way was it reduced the amount of splashing when they ran the faster wheel. I have not tried it but will be giving it a go some day to test it.
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1st July 2014, 01:45 PM #4Hewer of wood
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Isn't the CBN gonna have to run very true as you can't round it the way you can with a friable wheel?
Cheers, Ern
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1st July 2014, 01:48 PM #5
The CBN wheels run true out of the box.
May be a bit worried if the cheap wetstone machine is not set up properlyJim Carroll
One Good Turn Deserves Another. CWS, Vicmarc, Robert Sorby, Woodcut, Tormek, Woodfast
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1st July 2014, 01:53 PM #6Hewer of wood
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Arthur was thinking about a DIY rig as per the OP, so that means tight tolerances for a CBN doesn't it.
Cheers, Ern
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3rd July 2014, 09:54 PM #7Skwair2rownd
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You are right Ern!
The main reason for me going to a wetstone system is that, no matter how I try I have developed a tendency
to burn smaller tools, even when using the blue Norton wheel.
Apart from shortening the life of the tool this means i get a none to sharp tool!!!
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4th July 2014, 06:08 AM #8SENIOR MEMBER
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Yep...I can be guilty of that from time to time! It is usually when I have a pile of things to sharpen that people leave in my workshop.
On the list of many things to build is a water cooled belt grinder. The one I built yrs ago is a little banchee with a VFD. I just keep the belt speed right down and I pretty much finish on hand stones or files depending on the tool.
The one tool that goes blue when you breathe on it too heavy is the Grillo mower blades. I don't know what steel it is but they cost a bomb and I generally only get a summer out of them anyway.
They are chubby blades for a mower too.. About 6mm thick, 50mm by about 200mm...
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4th July 2014, 12:48 PM #9Skwair2rownd
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My main concern is with my smaller turning tools, especially the spindle gouges and smaller bowl gouges.
I have managed to get a better profile on them but I need a more defined edge.
Think I will tie some helium balloons to the paws to help with a lighter touch!
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11th August 2014, 04:49 PM #10Senior Member
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- Mar 2008
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- Australia
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I have an 8inch single phase bench grinder. I've been looking for something a bit less aggressive than 3000rpm and a white Al oxide very fine 150 grit wheel. Not 100% convinced of the need for a water bath, since tools seem to stay fairly cool if I use an ice bath rather than just water.
Been reading about induction motor speed controller, but it's $250 for the Silicon Chip kit and may not work at all if the grinder has a centrifugal switch (presume that is the mechanical slide to stop noise on startup).
Read the interesting comparisons of Tormek vs Jet vs Scheppach wet grinders. Also compares jigs. https://www.woodworkforums.com/121609...-tiger-2500-a/
CBN or diamond wheel sounds nice, but maybe overkill on price for a roughing in grind. Have a few flat diamond stones, which I would never go past for finer honing. Where do people get their CBN or diamond wheels from???
Now I'm thinking surely the easiest and most cost effective would be to run a reduction rubber wheel off the grinder shaft as a DIY bench grinder accessory, since that's how the commercial wet grinders work internally.
Surely someone has done this before???? (still googling)
Found out that Tormek makes a BGM-100 bench grinder mount that permits the use of Tormek and similar jigs with a standard bench grinder. Looks pretty simple for $105-150!.
TORMEK Benchgrinder Mounting Set (TOR-BGM-100)Last edited by blouis79; 12th August 2014 at 09:46 AM. Reason: added
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18th August 2014, 09:21 PM #11GOLD MEMBER
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Artme, seeing you are starting from scratch, build the water cooled CBN, or buy a Tormek or clone and retrofit the CBN wheel. I made up the bar for my spark grinder and use the Tormek jigs for the rough grind then finish on the Tormek whetstone. Once you have the correct profile, the Tormek only removes thousanths of an inch each touch up, that's why they are the best.
Rgds,
Crocy
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18th August 2014, 09:55 PM #12
Why does one need to water cool a CBN wheel? Is it not the point that they run cool (in addition to be long lasting)?
Further, why the concern with cool grinding with lathe chisels, which I assume are HSS? Grind red hot and be done.
I cannot imagine that a 1/16 hp motor is likely to have the torque to keep turning when a blade is pushed hard against it, especially if it is running at speed, which I understand CBN wheels require.
I would seek out an old (vintage) 8" high speed grinder with decent bearings, at least 1/2 - 3/4 hp, and fit a CBN wheel to that.
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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19th August 2014, 01:20 PM #13GOLD MEMBER
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From what i have read on other forums, the CBN wheel is a swap for the original Tormek wheels so the process does not change, only gets better. The greatest advantage of having it watercooled is it stops all the microscopic metal dust that the CBN wheels create floating around in your workplace, they stay in the waste water. Also from what I have read if you grind HSS till its red it looses it temper on the cutting edge. There maybe some more informed people out there that can comment.
rgds,
Crocy.
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19th August 2014, 01:27 PM #14Hewer of wood
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AFAIK dull red seen in natural light is as far as you want to go with HSS.
Cheers, Ern
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19th August 2014, 04:39 PM #15
HSS may be heated to cherry red and not be affected at all. It only becomes soft above 550-600 Centrigrade, where as carbon steels soften at 200 Centigrade. As I understand it, HSS with higher vanadium content can withstand even higher temps.
The point is that HSS is not vulnerable to the type of heat generated by a high speed grinder, does not therefore need to be cooled, and attempts to do so are wasted effort.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.