Grain filling before Oiling

[gmcginty]

I use a lot of Hard Burnishing Organoil and was wondering if I should be using something to "fill" the grain before applying the Oil. The surface appears very smooth before applying the oil but I wonder if I'm missing out and just that little bit better finish. I normally sand to 400 or 600 and work with Jarrah,Marri and Sheok.
Any help appreciated.

Regards
Greg

[barnsey]

Greg,

Been there, done that

I'm not a great lover of fillers on anything. If that is the way of the timber, that's the way it is. You'll find any number of tips on here for improving the finish:
sharper tools
Finer abrasives
Scrapers
and I'm not going to go there

I've found that I can improve the apparent finish using wax because it has some grain filling ability of it's own. Probably a bit more durable than some of the oils in some respects but that's an argument for others more knowledgeable than I ( Such as Neil & co )

Have a bit of an experiment on some scrap that will give you the feel for what it is that you want.

Good Luck

Jamie

[Termite]

Scrapers
and I'm not going to go there

Wimp

[barnsey]

Termite,

I've got more than enough blisters from a red hot keyboard recently :eek:

Don't need you throwing buckets of midge killer accelerant on it thanks

Jamie

[bitingmidge]

Don't need you throwing buckets of midge killer accelerant on it thanks
Jamie

:eek: :eek: :eek:
That goes for me too!!!

(But if you have a recipe I could do with some, particularly after the rain for a few days around the new moon when the little buggers are out in force!)

Cheers,

P

[vsquizz]

I found the need for sanding sealers and grain fillers when buggerising around with poly to try and get a good finish but not with oil finishes. I wet the surface with a damp rag to see if raises the grain any. Never seem to have a problem on hardwood if sanded to 400 or better.

I have used Timbermate on pine to prepare for a tung oil finish.


Cheers

[Different]

Goint out on a limb her but for me grain fillers and sanding sealers have about as much place in fine woodworking as melamine does.
Sand as fine as tou can oil it and your done or add some wax if you want a bit more dazzle.

I think most of these products are just dreamend up by boored chemists with nothing else to do!


Ross

[jur]

The sanding dust mixed with the oil is supposed to fill the grain. Read about it here http://www.organoil.com.au/woodcraft/printable.html .

[rsser]

Like Jur said.

If you're doing it right, you're building up a slurry of oil and wood dust, and that should be filling the grain. Should work fine with Sheoak, but Jarrah is coarse grained so you may need to vary the technique or you may be asking too much.

Using this stuff on turnings, I found that after 3 - 4 weeks the grain was raised, and the work needed a light sanding and a wee bit of wax n polish. The wax however defeats the purpose of using an oil finish to get the extra water resistance it has over a wax finish - didn't matter since the turnings were only decorative, but I wouldn't use the wax on a table or bench top.

[LineLefty]

Goint out on a limb her but for me grain fillers and sanding sealers have about as much place in fine woodworking as melamine does.
Sand as fine as tou can oil it and your done or add some wax if you want a bit more dazzle.

I think most of these products are just dreamend up by boored chemists with nothing else to do!


Ross

Ross, thats one of the most refreshing things I've heard in a long time. And coming from yourself, I think here some experience and authority behind it.

After putting hours into projects, and then reading all this gaff on finishing it starts to get terrifying overwhelming and confusing.

So instead of mixing concoctions, applying various sealers, fillers, and then using expensive spray equipment I've just gone out and bought a $20 bottle of Organoil clear finishing oil and a tub of Ubeaut Traditional wax.

Sand to 600, a few coats of oil wet sanded, allowed to dry and a quick coat and buff with the wax.

Let see how it goes eh? If it sux, it's your fault

[silentC]

This is interesting.

I guess sanding sealers have been around in one form or another for a long time, so I wouldn't necessarily agree that they have simply been invented to suck up more of our hard-earned cash. Grain filling is a standard step in the French Polishing process for example. There might be a case for saying that they are recommended in applications where they are not needed though.

I thought the purpose of a 'filling' sealer was to clog up the pores and lock the fibres in place prior to sanding. This creates a smooth and homogenous surface for the finish to sit on and reduces patchiness that might occur if different parts of the surface soak up more or less of the finish or stain. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Perhaps some timbers are more prone to that than others, hence you might find little advantage in it in some cases but more advantage in others. I have certainly found that applying a coat or two of a 'filling' sealer prior to sanding down to 1200 has improved the finish of timbers I have worked with when using Scandinavian Oil.

However, I've also found it harder to get a good finish because the oil wants to sit on the surface rather than soak in. Because this oil has poly-urethane in it, it dries hard, so I guess it doesn't need to soak in. Other oils need to soak in to get a good finish and so having something preventing this is possibly counter-productive.

I stand by to be enlightened.

[LineLefty]

I actually tried to get away with sanding all together. Everything was planed galssy smooth. But the process of assembly, glue squeezeout, and repeated handling has put various small marks, scratches and scuffs on the work. A lot of those places arent accessible to a smoother post-assembly

[rsser]

If I don't want to darken the wood the way oil does I'll use cellulose sanding sealer and wax.

[Richardwoodhead]

Adam, please post some pics of your oil & wax finish and let us know how you think it went.

Ross, by chance I was talking today with a luthier (sp?) about how he finishes his musical instruments. One of the things he does is grain filling, to achieve that really smooth finish they have. So I suppose there are some kinds of woodworking that "need" grain filling in the finishing process?

Richard

[LineLefty]

Looking at my Yamaha guitar that sits, forlorny next to my desk, the finish is completely flat, and the grain is definitely filled.............except on the fretboard. I wonder why?