T&G Timber floor options

[grinner]

G'day

I'm about to start an extension to my house, 50's weatherboard. The extension subfloor will be constructed of concrete stumps, timber bearers & joists.

I want to have polished solid timber floors in the extension. As I see it I have two options, 1. Lay T&G boards directly on joists, or 2. Lay chipboard floor, then lay T&G boards on chipboard.

I'm just after some opions on the pros & cons of the above options.

thanks

Grinner

[Frenchie]

Are you going to do the work or will you subcontract the work out?

If you are doing the work yourself, then the particleboard approach will give you plenty of flexibility. You can establish a working platform very early and get on with the extensions with little concern about the floor during construction. You can have the finished surface laid at the end of the job with little chance of damaging.

If you have someone else carry out the construction I would get their opinion on both the practicality and expense of the exercise.

[grinner]

Hi Frenchie,

I was planning to do the majority of work myself, and sub out the more difficult bits.

[antman]

Hi Grinner,
We put a brushbox floor in my parents place a few years ago and at the time we were offered a yellow tongue floor with the brushbox 'glued' on top. The builder said that the benefit was that there were no nails to punch and fill. We ended up going with the boards onto the joists, not sure why, cost I suspect.
Maybe something to consider??
Anthony

[grinner]

thanks antman,

I've just got back from the local timber yard and was discussing it with one of the guys there. It will cost about $500 to do the area (6m x 8m) in yellowtounge, then add the cost of whatever I decide to put on top.

[journeyman Mick]

Grinner,
if we leave aside the particleboard flooring for a minute, there's two ways to lay a timber floor:
1) Lay floor on joists then build and stand walls and roof.
2) Build subfloor, walls, roof etc then lay floor, in between walls.

1) pros: faster, gives you a working platform. Cons: flooring is exposed to weather and needs to be coated with "combat" or similar.

2) pros:flooring is protected from weather. Cons:have to walk on and build walls on top of bare joists, need to cut flooring around all the internal walls, need to fit joist trimmers.

If you are confident you're going to get the walls up and roof on quickly and that the weather will be on your side then option 1 is the go. If you're not confident that this will be the case then laying the particleboard first and then going with option 2 will give you a working platform and negate the need for joist trimmers, just leaving you to do a bit of cutting in.

Mick

[gemi_babe]

Sorry to barge in on the tech side of things but since the subject was about old houses, concrete stumps etc. I would like to pick your brains...

I have just bought my first home. It was built sometime in the 1920-30's. It is completely inside and out of Jarrah. Pressed metal ceiling in the lounge (georgous!)

Why Grinner, have you gone for concrete stumps and not wooden? What am I going to be up for in the years to come with my Jarrah stumps and what things should I do to make sure nothing bad goes wrong with them???

I understand about termites and water rot, but anything else?

Thanks for this fantastic site.
Hope you guys don't mind a girl joining up :P

[ozwinner]

Sorry to barge in on the tech side of things but since the subject was about old houses, concrete stumps etc. I would like to pick your brains...

I have just bought my first home. It was built sometime in the 1920-30's. It is completely inside and out of Jarrah. Pressed metal ceiling in the lounge (georgous!)

Why Grinner, have you gone for concrete stumps and not wooden? What am I going to be up for in the years to come with my Jarrah stumps and what things should I do to make sure nothing bad goes wrong with them???

I understand about termites and water rot, but anything else?

Thanks for this fantastic site.
Hope you guys don't mind a girl joining up :P

Hi
You will get more replys if you start your own thread, that way people will see the title that you give it.

Cheers, Al

[soundman]

whatever you do, make sure its level.

Check it at every stage & correct as early as you can.

I know a lot of the (lesser) building professionals will saay it don't matter but a realy flat floor is a happy thing.

[grinner]

Thanks for the continuing replies.

First to Mick, I'm anticipating that there may be some weeks from when the floor goes down to when the lid goes on, and being a Victorian winter, there is a good chance it will get wet, so I take your point about protecting the floor.

I've almost convinced myself about laying the yellowtounge first, then laying the final floor finish later. Gives me some options if the budget gets squeezed etc.

To gemi babe, Why concrete?, doesn't rot, less attractive to termites, cheaper. I've replaced a couple of the current stumps, and some of them have been rotten just below ground level, also it seem to be what the local builders are using around my area.

To soundman, yes I agree, I'll try and make it as level as I can. I have a retired builder who's giving me advice, so I'll make sure he's around when it comes to setting stumps heights etc.

One last one for Mick, what is a joist trimmer?

Grinner

[Frenchie]

If you go for option 2 as Mick has suggested, the flooring will in some cases not end where the is a support to nail into. In this case you will need to add "joist trimmers". These will be additional supports to pick up the end of the flooring.

Hope that helps.

[seriph1]

one thing not often considered when doing overlay, or secondary flooring, especially on extensions - that's any floor that is placed on another substrate like chipboard, is the final level of the floor, as it feeds into the existing home's floors.

If you want the existing floor to marry in with the newie, make certain that finished height of your joists take into account the thickness of the two materials ..... just my opinion, but I feel it makes for a far nicer transition, regardless of materials.

By this I mean, say your home has 3 to 4 inch Ash or Messmate floors (typical in 50's Victorian homes) and you are choosing to contrast the material with 4 to 5 inch Blackbutt or Bluegum - several things will be happening .... there will be the variation of material, apparent in grain-figure, dimension and colour - also, there will be a visible join between the two spaces. Adding to all this might then be a step, or a strip of some metal or timber material.... or a combination.

Sometimes I advise clients that have an existing extension to "not" try to disguise the transition, but to celebrate it (sounds wanky I know but there you have it ) using a wide piece of material - perhaps a wide piece of Redgum, or even slate or other stone. When there is also a step to deal with, wide material can be used to “feather” the difference by creating an elongated wedge, if that makes sense.

Bacchus Marsh does get chilly so the added chipboard couldn’t hurt, though as you noted, it will sure add bucks to the project. Frenchy makes a great point regarding the practicalities of chipboard during construction. Perhaps you could get prefab (available from a firm in Gisborne) walls and roof trusses (and help!) and lay floor, erect walls and trusses, then fix the roof within a few days, only requiring relatively simple temporary weather-proofing…. Depends of course on a bunch of factors…and it’s way too easy for me to suggest all of this, sitting warmly at home in Kilmore. J

Best of luck with it!

[grinner]

Firstly, thanks Frenchie for explaining what a joist trimmer is, makes sense.

Steve, I have thought about the final floor height, and was going to make provisions for it. As for the transition between the old and new, I was thinking of making a feature of it.

I was planning to use prefrab trusses and walls, and have been chasing companies in Melton and Geelong, I will have to look up the one in Gisborne.

Thanks All
Grinner

[glock40sw]

G'day Grinner.
Mate, You Could have the best of both worlds. Firstly, T&G flooring is my bread and butter. I manufacture the stuff.
I would suggest that you firstly lay a Yellow Tongue over the joists. Finish your construction, then have the Y/Tongue level sanded. Then have a Secret nail profile 80x19mm endmatched floor glued and nailed to the Y/Tongue and use nails long enough to go through and pickup the joists as well. This will give you a fantastic floor that will be rock solid.

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor
Grafton

[Rusty]

G'day Grinner!

I work for a flooring distributor and have seen thousands of metres of T&G wasted by builders who thought " a bit of rain won't hurt it." Of course, we are fanatic about protecting the product and strongly recommend that any building be finished to lock up stage at least- preferably with all wet trades completed -and the timber laid out and acclimatised for 2-3 weeks before laying. A highly variable ambient moisture content level (i.e Melbourne weather) and large North facing windows are the enemies of solid timber strip flooring!

If you are in any kind of rush, then put your yellow tongue down first and your solid floor at your leisure. A well acclimatised floor is less prone to movement and subsequent splitting etc, as I'm sure you would realise. www.timber.net.au has a bunch of good info on all this and more.

BTW, Trevor from Grafton, any clues to which mill you are from? We have a few suppliers up that way...