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Thread: Installing a shower
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2nd August 2003, 05:44 PM #1
Installing a shower
I'm about to install a shower in my ensuite and I'm trying to find a little information about exactly how it should be done. I have a moulded shower base and I'll be tiling the walls inside the shower. I believe Villaboard is the go for lining the walls behind the tiles, but I'm trying to find some instructions regarding the exact procedure. I have the bottom of the walls recessed so that the wall sheets will overlap the edges but before I go any further I have a few questions.
1 - I've seen reference to installing a waterproof plastic sheet behind the villaboard. Is this necessary and if so, why? Isn't the villaboard waterproof? I've also heard plenty of people tell me to just fasten the sheets straight to the studs and then tile. I'm not sure what's right.
2 - Since the rest of the ensuite will be lined with plasterboard, how do I join the edge of the villaboard to the edge of the plasterboard where one surface meets the other, since plasterboard is 10mm thick and villaboard is only 6mm?
If anyone knows of a link to a site that can answer all of my questions, perhaps with some good diagrams etc, that would be great.
Thanks...Chris.
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2nd August 2003, 06:29 PM #2
Supermod
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I just finished putting fancy new taps on me sink! So I can help with that! hehe..
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2nd August 2003, 08:37 PM #3
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I rebuilt my shower a couple of years ago and I was advised to put a waterproof plastic membrane under the shower and coming up on the sides behind the wall linings for about 30 cms.
This was to stop water seeping behind the wall lining if the shower base got blocked and flooded.
I didn't tile it but used special laminated sheets, I presume that your tiles and the villaboard will be about the same thickness as your plasterboard so you should not have any problems with finishing.
Peter.
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2nd August 2003, 10:31 PM #4
First off, there's two different ways the term "waterproof" is used. You have "waterproof" as in the material itself does not disintegrate when subject to water and secondly you have "waterproof" as in an impermeable barrier. Tiles, grout and villaboard are all waterproof in that they won't disintegrate in water, however they will not stop the passage of water, merely hinder it.
If you build a shower recess out of villaboard and tile and grout it water will make its way through the grout joins, through the cement sheeting and into your wall cavity. You need to install a waterproof membrane over your sheeting and behind the tiles and down onto the lip of the tray. I use a product called "Liquid Flash" which is a thick acrylic based paint like material with fibreglass stands in it. There are other brands and types, some of which employ fibreglass matting and a paint like product, however I find the all in one product more convenient. Make sure that you follow the instructions to the letter, especially about the bondbreaker tape in the inside corners.
I sit the shower screen on the edge of the tiling line and would use a stop bead on the edge of the gyprock if I had to use it. I would, however suggest that you use villaboard instead, it's only marginally more but makes a better wet area wall. Just remember that if you are laying tiles on villaboard (rather than hardiflex or versilux) you can't tile over topcote.
Mick
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2nd August 2003, 10:43 PM #5
Giesse,
Visit the James Hardie site (makers of Villaboard) and you will find lots of info. eg. Bathroom Fixing PDF
Gordon.
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2nd August 2003, 11:56 PM #6
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And as Mick has said, you should definitely do all your walls with villaboard, not plasterboard.
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3rd August 2003, 12:06 AM #7
If I shouldn't be using plasterboard, then what is wet-area plasterboard used for? And isn't Villaboard basically just cement sheet? Wouldn't that be rather hard and noisy for use as an internal wall?
Chris.
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3rd August 2003, 02:21 AM #8
Giesse,
I don't understand 'hard'.
Villaboard has a tapered edge to allow taping and filling just like plasterboard. It's 6mm thick, add your standard tile and glue and your at same thickness as plasterboard, before you tile.
I used it when I redid the laundry, bathroom and toilet. Bathroom and toilet tiled to ceiling and laundry half way up (SWMBO wanted it that way).
I also replaced floorboards with compressed sheeting, basically followed the Hardie guide.
Gordon.
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3rd August 2003, 09:13 PM #9
Hard, as in not soft. Wouldn't it be like having concrete walls (OK, so not THAT hard...)? I've always considered that cement sheet is something that you line sheds with, not houses. I must admit, though - I haven't seen Villaboard as yet, so I'm only making assumptions about it being as hard as cement sheet. Perhaps it isn't, but that was the impression that I got.
Also, I'm thinking that when you whack your fist on a cement sheet wall it tends to vibrate, whereas plasterboard gives more of a dull thud. Once again, perhaps Villaboard is different.Chris.
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3rd August 2003, 10:23 PM #10
If you rap on a villaboard wall it will give off a sharper sound than a plasterboard wall but unless you plan on spending a bit of time rapping on the walls you're not going to know the difference. If you follow the fixing instructions, nails/screws & adhesive, it shouldn't vibrate. A finished villaboard wall will look the same as a finished plasterboard wall but it won't get dings and scratches in it to the same extent as a plasterboard wall. If you hit it hard enough you will get a hole, but the same goes for plasterboard. Yes, villaboard is just cement sheeting, but I bet you don't know what plasterboard is made of. Despite its name plasterboard is not two sheets of paper with plaster in between. The white stuff is actually made mostly of recycled chook poo that's been bound with a bit of plaster! It makes great mulch, especially on heavy clay soils. Wet area plasterboard is slightly more water resistant than the run of the mill stuff but you won't catch me using it.
Mick
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6th August 2003, 02:26 PM #11
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Also have a look at the new Hardies wet area lining product called Ezy-Grid Tilebacker. It looks interesting. It is basically villaboard with a grid scored into it and fixing points marked. It is claimed the grid makes cutting easier and also helps when applying the tile adhesive.
Unless you are just replacing a section, use villaboard right through the room. If you mix and match villa with gyprock you need to pack out the villa to account for the thickness difference. But I can't see any advantage, you would be asking for trouble with gyprock in a bathroom.
George
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6th August 2003, 05:43 PM #12
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From what I hear you saying - you are actually renovating the ensuite - not putting in a new one. If this is right thenm I understand why the Gyprock is already there, and your hesitation to pull it all out!
I had the same thing in my bathroom. I cheated by tiling over the joins so the step was not noticeable. Must say though that there really wasn't that much of a step anyway.
Have you thought of tiling to the ceiling all through the ensuite? Is it an option?
Simon
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6th August 2003, 11:02 PM #13
Well, technically, anything is an option. But it's looking like I'll have to basically remove ALL the existing plasterboard, so perhaps I'll just use Villaboard right through.
I also have had a lot of people telling me that I should be using Lamipanel in the shower recess. Even if I use Villaboard everywhere else, the Lamipanel is only around 3mm thick, so I'll still have a step where it joins the Villaboard. I'd have an even BIGGER one if I used Gyprock. So what do people usually do? I could put a strip of wood over the join, routed on the back to compensate, but is there a better way?Chris.
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7th August 2003, 12:17 AM #14
Chris,
The lamipanel goes over the villaboard in the same manner that tiles do. There is not enough thickness in the lamipanel on its own.
regards
Kev
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7th August 2003, 12:21 PM #15
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Are you removing tiles from the existing gyprock? If so you may find that you do a fair bit of damage to the sheeting. Depending on the job (condition of sheeting, type of tile adhesive used previously and age) it can be quicker and easier to re-sheet and then tile on a nice new surface.
If you do replace just a section of gyprock with villaboard, tack strips of 3 mm masonite to the studs where the villaboard will be fixed. This gets the thickness difference to within 1 mm. Tape and base coat the joins and preferably extend the tiles over the join as well. I would keep any gyprock/villaboard joins well away from the shower stall itself.
In terms of waterproofing, have a look here for some basics
http://www.norcros.com.au/diy/howto/waterproof.htm
I have used the ABA Superflex Bathroom and Balcony product, but there must be 100 waterproofing membrane products around. All have slightly different recommendations so read carefully.
Cheers
George