Outdoor Blind Installation

[LineLefty]

We recently had a prominent company install a premium outdoor blind on our Patio at a considerable expense ($800). Supposedly fully installed.

I come home from work, and its all instaleld fine, except that the anchor hooks that are supposed to be in the ground are sitting on the kitchen table. My wife then explains that we've got to do that ourselves.

These are 10x10cm stainless steel plates which are have a little sunken recess to slip a web strap thru to tighten down the blind.

Now I imagine that the potential windloads on a 3x3m blind will be enormous. Their advice was simply to simply screw the plate directly onto the paving bricks. Surely I'll need something a bit stronger than that? They also kindly supplied us with ungalvanised screws

Terrible service. Does anyone have any experience with this process? It's a long shot I know but I really dont think their method is strong enough.

[seriph1]

I think their method....rather their suggested method is BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and anything less than Stainless steel screws are a waste of effort IMHO.

Youre dead right that the SAIL that has been fitted by them will have potentially enormous forces acting on it ...... guaranteed this is why the installers and firm do not fix these items themselves - they would rip out and fly around all over the place, hitting some poor mug on the way.

I reckon fix (weld?) a piece of T shaped steel onto the back of each and quick set concrete them into the ground at your desired points.... I have experienced a sail in our back yard rip away from its moorings - granted it was a pretty lively storm, but still - better safe than sorry ..... (we removed ours altogether with a view to doing the above when we pave)

[bitingmidge]

I reckon the only thing that'd hurt more than getting donged on the nut by a flapping blind, would be getting donged on the nut by a brick attached to a flapping blind.

It may take a bit to do it, but it's not impossible, and in extreme conditions could be very dangerous indeed.

Why not get them back to do it properly?

I guess you've paid them! :mad:

If the pavers are on a concrete base, drill through to the concrete and use some chem-set bolts. If not, half a bag of bag mix should do the trick (in a hole under the paver then fixed as above, or by those little angle bolt thingies that are designed for fixing in concrete, bolt them to the brackets and support them in their finished location till the concrete goes off.

Disclaimer: If you get getting donged on the nut by a piece of concrete attached to a brick attached to a flapping blind you could end up dead, so make sure that the concrete is in a big enough lump, or don't stand near it in windy conditions,

Cheers,

P

[seriph1]

chem-sat! that's what I was thinking of!

Even getting donged by the clippie thingie that attaches to the bolt, that attaches to the brick that attaches to the concrete

would hurt

[LineLefty]

Thanks for the replies all, it's given me assurance that their instructions were'nt up to scratch. I need to think about this some more. The plates have four counter sunk holes in them big enough for a 3/8inch bolt.

So this is the plan.

Lift a few bricks, dig a hole and pour concrete to a level just below the existing ground. Drill holes in concrete. Drill corresponding holes in brickPut a mortar base down and lay the brick back.

What I'm not sure of is how do I secure the screws in the concrete. Masonry plugs? Is theres some special peice of ardware design to anchor things in concrete? Or.....do I need to sete threaded rod into the concrete the secure the plate with nuts?

(This'll be my first effort with concrete)

[wombat47]

Presumably this prominent company has a reputation to uphold? And would this prominent company be an Australia-wide concern? I suppose this company might sub-contract to others for the actual fitting of their products and might be pleased (well, perhaps not that pleased) to hear of your experience.

[Theremin]

I would pour concrete, put pavers back on, then drill a hole through both, then use some Ankascrews or Trubolts (see Ramset website) through the paver and into the concrete. It could be hard to get the holes in the bricks to line up with the holes in the concrete if you don't drill them both at once.

[seriph1]

do they have 8 - 10 inch bolts for such a thing that will suit/fit the plate?

I suppose the easiest would be to just toss the supplied plates and go with another fixing system

[bitingmidge]

Easy!

Finish the job and drill the holes through the finished surface into the concrete.

If you can't get bolts long enough, you can get epoxy in a number of forms designed for the purpose, and glue in a threaded rod (booker rod) cut to a suitable length.

Go to your nearest fastener shop and ask for info, or specialist builders hardware..just about all the brands make a suitable product.

Regards,

P

[LineLefty]

Thanks all,

After I pour the concrete, should I put the brick back in while the concrete is still wet or lay it on a mortar base on top of the concrete?

[bitingmidge]

Either will do, as you are going to bolt through the brick in any case.

I would use mortar, because I'm hopeless with concrete and that'd give me a second chance to get it right, but if you can do it without it will work just as well.

Cheers,

P

[Jacksin]

I agree with most of these learned folk, but to ask the installers to come back to do the job properly after the poor advice they gave you would be only inviting disaster.

Pour a decent sized concrete pad BUT allow it to cure before you fix through the paver into the concrete with long fixings or they will pull loose with the load you are going to put on it. Alternatively extend the tie down bracket and pour it in the concrete, but you will have to be precise in setting out, and cut the paver around it
Jack

[seriph1]

just thinking further - OUCH - perhaps you wanna create a female fixing point so tiny feet....and big ones.... dont slice themselves open or trip on any protruding tiedown?

or am I so far off the mark as to be ridiculous?

[journeyman Mick]

Lefty,
maybe you should contact the manufacturer of the blind system and ask them for their recomendations - in writing. Once you've got a fax or a drawing, whatever, contact them again and ask them:
1) are they aware that the installers are not fitting the tie down points
2) will their professional indemnity/product liability insurance cover any injuries caused by failure of the tie down points.
Be interesting to see how quickly they scramble to cover their @rse. Chances are of course that the moment you ring and start asking difficult questions you should see some sort of follow up. My understanding is that their verbal instructions to screw the plate to a paver would make them liable (to a large degree, at any rate) for any injuries or damages caused by the failure of the tie down system.

Mick

[scooter]

Leverage gained by lightly lisping litigious Mick - bewdiful.


Cheers........Sean (Gday, I'm Sean, and I'm a punaholic )