Advice needed for some new projects

[Horsecroft88]

Hi all, I mentioned on another thread (Lawry's one re his old english oak desk restoration) that I had some further projects I will be tackling in the near future, and Lawry suggested that I show some pictures of what I was talking about.

First off is a Mahogany side table, that belongs to my other half. It essentially needs the top to be stripped back and re French Polished. No dramas for me there, but just a couple of points, firstly the top does have a crack running much of the length of it. I am kind of figuring either (a) to leave it be or (b) does anyone have a practical suggestion what to do with this. I havn't investigated yet whether or not I could unscrew the top and if so, then sash clamps and a strong wood glue might do the trick. Any suggestions on what sort of glue to use if this is possible. I also need to repair the low back on the back end of the table which has come loose where it attaches to the table top. I think it has split here. Again I was thinking of glue and perhaps some carefully placed/hidden pins to strengthen the repair.

The other thing and I think this might be out of my league is how to or even whether or not to attempt to repair the legs. It would appear that some PO cut the legs down. I am assuming the legs were showing signs of wear and to even it up, that this was considered the easiest thing to do.

I can't wood turn and don't have access to such equipment but if I might be able to get a joiner/furniture repairer to perhaps to run up some leg bottoms, which I could attach to the legs. Would I be correct in thinking I would need to do this by dowl and glue and then simply re-polish the lower legs ?

The next project is a mahogany drop leaf square side table on splayed legs. Again largely a re-polishing project, but again and hopefully the pictures I have show this, but one of the splayed legs has broken and rather than repairing the leg properly the PO screwed some metal plates onto the break to hold it together, unfortunately it doesn't work and I am going to have to do something to repair this properly. Any suggestions to how to do this would be appreciated.

The last project I think I would like to tackle is some minor repairs to my father's mahogany Secretaire. A cat that he used to have has very badly scratched the side and front of the lower frame (on the LHS). The scratches are quite deep, (1-3mm), and simply trying to sand these out and re-polish thereafter I don't think is appropriate.

I had thought that another method could be to cut out the affected section (very carefully) and replace with a slim fillet of mahogany cut to size and re-polish. While I suspect this probably is the best way, given the value of this piece (reputedly over $20K) I am loathe to try this, as it is out of my experience level. The other option I had thought was to try to fill with an appropriate wood putty, sand back, re-colour with stain/french polish and wax finish. Getting the colour right though might be really tricky. At least one of the drawer fronts also has a lot of surface scratching from said cat, and even this I am concerned about trying to repair. I would hate to stuff it up for him.

(Sorry re this but the photos of the secretaire are on their side, couldn't figure out how to rotate).

Will be interested in any feedback anyone can give.

[Horsecroft88]

A photo of the damage to the Secretaire.

[Horsecroft88]

One more photo of the Secretaire. Dad also in his attempts to cover up the damage at one time had put some sort of tape over it, but when removed this has resulted in a little localised damage to the polish on the LHS of the base piece. I really love this piece and would love to see it repaired. If to do this correctly is out of my experience level, I will recommend that he get it taken to a antique furniture repair expert, and perhaps this might be the best option.

[Chief012]

Unfortunately I can't offer any suggestions other than I hope you bill the cat for the repair bill!

It's a very nice secretaire

[Horsecroft88]

Heh heh, yes that would be an interesting thing to try out, but regrettably (or possibly not for my parents), the said cat has long since departed this mortal world. For sure, it is an impressive piece. My parents bought a whole range of mahogany and cedar antiques back in the early '60s for a few 100 quid at most, when back then they were virtually worthless.

Not a problem, am just hoping one of the well experienced people here on the forum might have a few ideas.

I guess I will first off sort out my other half's tables and then figure out what to do with the Secretaire, even if it means I don't actually do anything, beyond recommending getting it repaired by a well experienced antique furniture restorer. I know what I can do, my limitations, but somethings are probably beyond my current skill/experience level.

[Chief012]

I am working on a time machine between furniture projects,..I have the process down pat, however making one big enough to bring back all the furniture is proving to be the real challenge!

Look forward to seeing how things progress,...

[Lawry01]

Hello Sensai HC.....great to now see you have some projects, so I dont take up so much airtime on here!! (try stopping me!!) I love the 3 pieces you want to work on, and whilst cannot be of advisory assistance, will offer plenty of encouragement and moral support!

Couple of things though....the secretaire...and its value! Hmm...is the estimated value for its current state or restored value? If current, and your intention is to keep it, rather than onsell, maybe doing the great work that you already know is well within your capability is enough, rather than risk damage. The cat scratches seem to me to be akin to the PO (what IS a PO??) I bought my desk from sanding against the grain. With your advice, I have reduced this catastrophe a little, and now will put it donw to patina & character! (sound familiar?) Maybe theres a bit of wisdom there! Anyway..some food for thought.
I also wonder if there are any other forumn members who may be able to help with the wood turning you may need? I'm sure if yes, they would offer some assistance, as you have done so geneously to many others!!
Love your other 2 table projects, and will watch with anticipation as I have bought a real cheap n nasty table ($10) to do some practice on, and the top looks in similar condition to yours! More on that another day....desk first.

So, Sensai HC...I'm looking forward to reading and seeing steps and work in progress here.
Cheers, Lawry

[Horsecroft88]

Hi Grasshopper Lawry, thanks for all your encouragement, and yes I know what you mean. Re the est value, I am only going on what my dad told me was advised by an antique valued many years ago. In truth would it go for that $ figure, who knows, probably not. But regardless it would be worth something. The valuation was given prior to the cats enhancements. You might be right some one might be prepared to help re turning some leg bases, anyone ?? Anyway, I think I will start on the top, as it should be relatively straightforward. Repolishing will be not an issue for me. PO means previous owner. Re the scratching I suspect you are right, just need to bite the bullet on that one. Will do some thinking re this plus might look at some re colour trials so can sort out the secretaries. For sure the patina on this piece is grt. Will keep you all posted as I work on these projects. Ditto mate look forward to seeing both desk being finished plus your other projects.

[pmcgee]

It essentially needs the top to be stripped back and re French Polished. No dramas for me there, but just a couple of points, firstly the top does have a crack running much of the length of it. I am kind of figuring either (a) to leave it be or (b) does anyone have a practical suggestion what to do with this. I havn't investigated yet whether or not I could unscrew the top and if so, then sash clamps and a strong wood glue might do the trick. Any suggestions on what sort of glue to use if this is possible.

Hi HC ...
This is only suggestion ... NOT the voice of experience ... so ...

I'm not sure I can see the crack, but eg PVA glue can be thinned with water and then sucked into the crack with a vacuum underneath. Not that I am sure that PVA is the glue to use here ... no doubt other glues can be thinned ... and maybe one that isn't water-soluble might have some sort of advantage?

Re the curved leg - I can't tell how it attaches at the top of the curve. Does it form a tenon just above the metal plate? or make a vertical sliding dovetail?
I think now I can see a break at the top there ... but why the lower plate?

Cheers,
Paul.

[Grandad-5]

Re the est value, I am only going on what my dad told me was advised by an antique valued many years ago. In truth would it go for that $ figure, who knows, probably not.

I only have access to a very small part of the antique trade here in Bendigo so what I'm seeing here may not be comparable with where you are but what I'm seeing is that all but the finest pieces are not bringing any kind of money what-so-ever in comparison to years past.

As an example, I wanted a Jacobean revival lounge suite many years ago (10 yrs?) and couldn't find anything halfway decent for less than $3000. There's a perfectly good 3 piece set at our local auction that nobody is interested in at $250 reserve.

There was a very nice 4 piece 1920's Blackwood extending dining table that has been at the auctions for several months with a reserve of $500 .It was a much better setting than one I sold 15 yrs ago for $1500. The vendor kept dropping his reserve until last Weds when I bought it for $300. Nothing to do to it. Just moved it into my dining room and set it for use.

Some antiques certainly don't appear to be holding any value at all compared to not that long ago.

Cheers
Jim

[Lawry01]

[QUOTE=Grandad-5;1497943]I only have access to a very small part of the antique trade here in Bendigo so what I'm seeing here may not be comparable with where you are but what I'm seeing is that all but the finest pieces are not bringing any kind of money what-so-ever in comparison to years past.

Jim, I tend to agree, and I wonder if its simply a sign of the economic times. I've been doing 'the rounds' of the various antique centres on Brisbane's Antique Trail, and have found (other than in the pricey suburbs, where the demographics disposable income is at its highest) prices exceptionally negotiable, and relatively low. In some cases, smaller items are able to be bargained to around 1/3 of asking price. I picked up a beautiful little leather inlayed restored hall table a few weeks ago for $100, one I figure years back would easily have brought $300+ etc. The higher end of the market is of course even further economically compromised.
So...for any of us who are thinking of making our fortunes with resotring antiques, I figure we need to be in restore and hoarde mode until things pick up..then set up a shop!!! Lawry

[Grandad-5]

So...for any of us who are thinking of making our fortunes with restoring antiques, I figure we need to be in restore and hoarde mode until things pick up..then set up a shop!!!

Hi Lawry,
I know full well that the majority may disagree but I can't help but think that the buying and restoring of antiques should only be approached on the basis of what the individual loves. Not with an eye to making money.
I know in my own case, I look for things in some pieces that will mean the dealers won't be interested in it. This will mean I might be able to pick it up for what I can afford. I must still love the piece. A high value item merely means I can't own it.

Horsecroft...you have a couple of very nice pieces there. The secretaire is particularly beautiful IMHO. I'm merely suggesting that value shouldn't enter into what we buy or restore, but rather what makes us feel good everytime we look at it.
Whether that secretaire is worth 20k or $20, lavish the same care and attention to it.If your eye is drawn to it every time you enter the room, it is worthy of whatever has to be done to bring it back.

That's my 2 bob's worth anything, which probably accurately portrays the true value of my opinion as well.

Cheers
Jim

[Lawry01]

Hi Lawry,
I know full well that the majority may disagree but I can't help but think that the buying and restoring of antiques should only be approached on the basis of what the individual loves. Not with an eye to making money.
I know in my own case, I look for things in some pieces that will mean the dealers won't be interested in it. This will mean I might be able to pick it up for what I can afford. I must still love the piece. A high value item merely means I can't own it.

Horsecroft...you have a couple of very nice pieces there. The secretaire is particularly beautiful IMHO. I'm merely suggesting that value shouldn't enter into what we buy or restore, but rather what makes us feel good everytime we look at it.
Whether that secretaire is worth 20k or $20, lavish the same care and attention to it.If your eye is drawn to it every time you enter the room, it is worthy of whatever has to be done to bring it back.

That's my 2 bob's worth anything, which probably accurately portrays the true value of my opinion as well.

Cheers
Jim

Jim, I agree 100% with you..I was being a little tongue & cheek with my comments!!! I have a few pieces in my home that my wife & I absolutely get pleasure from looking at, using etc., and I want to keep it that way! Reading between the lines of my point however, I was implying that there may well be some bargains to be had. I've recently ben re-kitting my home office, from a messy, modern look, that I really didnt enjoy being in, to what hopefully will become a charming, old world library/ study/ smoking room feel. As such, I've been sourcing appropriate old & antique pieces to match, and all within a tight budget. I've ben able to source a beautiful set of Grandpa & gradnma chairs + matching chaise, a desk (well...2 in fact!) one of which the guys here have ben guiding me through restoring, etc., silkyoak bookcase, and table (happy to post pics of these at a late date, as some will want a little bit of tlc basic restoring of the finish.) My expereience in doing all this was that prices are low, if youre prepred to have fun with bargaining! I've seen many items similar to those I've sourced with a bit of hard work at 2, 3 & 4 x the prices in antique centres.
So, I'm all for the ambience created by the furtiture that becomes par of our lives, and thats why I've so thoroughly enjoyed being able to do some work on some of these peieces. As HC , WW & a few other know, I've caught the addiction! Cheers, Lawry

[Grandad-5]

I'm subscribed to your desk restore thread Lawry. You're doing a great job.
Out of interest, it was WW that I first heard say that everything in your room should bring you pleasure when you look at. I've paid more attention to that factor ever since.

I LOVE the old English library or Mens Club look. Leather wing-back chairs and lots of dark timbers.

Anyway...I think maybe we've hi-jacked Horsecrofts thread enough. I'll back on out of here now and let others help him restore his pieces. Something I'm not able to do.

Jim

[Horsecroft88]

Hey guys, many thanks for all the excellent feedback and I will try to give meaniful replys to all as I really appreciate feedback. Oh BTW, as far as I am concerned thread hijacking is perfectly fine by me . It is all good, and a great way of sharing experiences.

Ok, so in respect of the advice from Paul, thanks mate yes makes good sense re the injection/suction of glue into the crack. I have been giving this all a little thought and had a chat with a mate here at work. In the first instance, while the crack runs mostly the length of the table top it is not too bad, say probably at its worse about 1-1.5mm gap. I checked under the table and yes it is screwed to the frame, so will investigate and see if I can remove it for the repairs. In talking with my mate, and as I think we all agree Aquadere has its uses but not for furniture repairs such as this. My mate apparently has some extra strong woodworking glues, plus sash clamps so I reckon I can sort this all out pretty easily.

The other problem will be the bottom of the legs and I might need to put this on the back burner while I sort out the rest of it.

Re the table with the three splayed legs, I am pretty sure the break in the leg is close to the top where it meets the table centre pole. Do the legs fit into this by a tongue and grove method, I suspect most likely. So if so, perhaps the key will be to remove the metal plates, and glue, perhaps with a biscuit inserted into the leg and even if necessary a screw/plugged over and then re-polished properly. I really won't know the solution to this one until I start investigating.

Now as far as my dad's secretaire goes, in the first instance I totally agree, it should never be about nor is about the financial value of such a piece. Afterall they are not for sale but rather use and enjoyment and eventually my parents antiques will be passed on down to us, their children, as we too mostly love and have antiques in our homes. My collection is somewhat sizeable and I have over the years been upgrading in quality. I mostly collect cedar, but am attracted to other woods depending on the style.

I agree, I am sure I can do the necessary repairs, I just need to figure out the least invasive way of making it better. That is all, for I would hate to damage it in trying to repair it, that is really my only concern.

Now I can't talk of what is going on, on the mainland but I can talk of per here in Tassie. I have been collecting, restoring and even occasionally selling or restoring antiques on commission for others over the past 20 years, so have a little experience.

The one thing I can tell you though is that down here prices are extremely strong for the best quality pieces be they colonial (and I truely mean that in terms of pre 1840s) as well as old English or European furniture. I only recently visited a dealer in Richmond on the outskirts of Hobart and the guys running that shop seriously didn't have anything for sale under $2K. Even a really small and delicate cedar wine table was listed at $2.5K. Their top pieces easily being for sale between $10-30K, and I mean things such as magnificant cedar chest of drawers, early colonial cedar desks, Birds eye Huon Pine wardrobes etc.

The same thing is true for the specialist antiques auctions down here, (both Hobart and Launceston), with some huge prices being reached.

What you have to remember is that in Tassie, we are the treasure trove for colonial furniture given that Tassie is the oldest state after NSW, and while over the years much of best furniture, paintings etc have been sold off to the mainland, there is still plenty down here. You only have to look at what is in some of the large mansions and old towns that abound around parts of the State.

The Hobart museum has two such collections, including an amazing huon pine collection which they paid to the previous owner the best part of $750K as well as an extremely fine and early cedar double ender couch which was in appalling condition as came out of a barn and fetched for its previous owner a very healthy $350K !! I am not kidding.

Myself, I have an early and huge fiddleback with cross banded cedar 6 drawer 1830s chest of drawers. I paid $2.5K to a dealer friend of mine, he let me have it at bargain price. It needs a little work but his advice to me was that its true value would be close to $4K once tidied up. But as I said, I love the pieces regardless of cost, it is all about the beauty of the grain and colour of the timber, the design, the tactile/practical pleasure I get from them, let alone the simple knowledge that I am a custodian of such pieces.

I will keep you all posted as I get on with the projects at hand.