LPG Fuel pricing

[Big Shed]

The oil companies aren't only dragging their feet on price reductions in petrol.

For LPG they use the Saudi CP Index and in the last 4 weeks it has dropped from $US790/tonne (equates to $A0.49/litre using the average exchange rate then) to $US490/tonne (equates to $A0.358/litre using todays' exchange rate).

In that time there has been no noticable drop in LPG prices at the pump, in fact in Adelaide at least they are trending up ($0.729/litre), in Melbourne they are around $0609-$0.629.

But the oil companies are not "price gouging", at least according to Graeme Samuels.

[dj_pnevans]

Gas in Perth is less then 50 cents around where I am.
The price of fuel will go up again (BP) and no one will do any thing about it, all they do is talk and the time for talking has to be over by now. The customer is the only one who can do any thing about it by shopping around.
David

[cellist]

The oil companies aren't only dragging their feet on price reductions in petrol.

For LPG they use the Saudi CP Index and in the last 4 weeks it has dropped from /tonne (equates to .49/litre using the average exchange rate then) to /tonne (equates to .358/litre using todays' exchange rate).

In that time there has been no noticable drop in LPG prices at the pump, in fact in Adelaide at least they are trending up ($0.729/litre), in Melbourne they are around $0609-$0.629.

But the oil companies are not "price gouging", at least according to Graeme Samuels.

Yes, and no one on either side of politics is talking about the fact that the Howard government introduced an exise on LPG, where once there was none. If memory serves, it is being phased in after it started last year over a period of a few years, until it reaches something like 8 cents per litre. How come no one is squawking about that?! Still, it's better than petrol unless you like to tow heavy things or do burn-outs to impress the chicks, the latter of which will likely not be much of an interest to us forum members.

Mike

[malb]

Try bottled gas - refills $30 for 8.5 kg (17L) or swaps at $37. Refills work out about $1.80 /L. We send the same stuff to Asia in bulk at less than 10c/L.
Autogas is currently about 43c/L in Melbourne. Many servos refill the decanting bottles from the Autogas tankers when they are topping up the Autogas holding tanks.

[oldbob13]

Does anyone know if you can get a connection hose to use a small bottle to transfer gas to your car if you run out?
In NSW the NRMA will not do this and you have to be flat towed to a garage.
BobT

[malb]

LPG is stored as a liquid in the bottle and transfered from cylinder to cylinder as a liquid' To supply liguid, the valve draws from the bottom of the cylinder (liquid reserve) rather than the top as for gas draw off for consumption.

Connecting a small vapour delivery bottle ( even a 9kg) to a larger bottle would effectively only equalise the vapour pressure in the connected cylinders, rather than transfer LPG in any significant quantity.

[Rattrap]

How bout telling the oil companys to kiss your shiny hiney - go all electric.
"http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/default.asp"

[Big Shed]

I drive between Bendigo and Adelaide regularly and can't get a 700km extension cord

Electric vehicles are very touch feely but not very practical, at the end of the day you are transferring your pollution from the exhaust to a brown coal fired power station.

Remember listening to a guy being interviewed on ABC radio who was going to establish an electric vehicle plant in Bendigo. When asked about range he conceded that 100km was about it, and that was on flat roads, if you wanted to go from Bendigo to Ballarat you would probably have to recharge halfway.

[Rattrap]

You're sort of right to some degree bigshed. Range is only limited to the size of your battery pack/battery weight & they are getting 250klm range now days with new battery systems. Today you can choose to buy green power for your house/ car charge which will help to push alternative green power systems, you can also throw up some solar panels on your roof to offset the power u use at night to charge up your EV. ( this is something we all should be considering at the very least!)
Though i loath ICE (internal combustion engine) cars, its true that for now we can't do without them completly - you are the perfect example of that. But for most people who drive round 50klms to work & back every day & really only go further on weekends etc then an EV are perfect, we just need to change the way we think about our driving habbits - just a tiny bit.
It costs round 50c a day to charge an EV, who wouldn't like to be able to go to work & back for under 50c a day? Today the only hurdle for EV's is the high cost of batteries & that will come down very rapidly once the demand goes up & the batteries go into full mass production. The advances that have been made in battery technoligy over just the last 5 years is staggering, they are getting lighter & with higher capacities & shorter charge times almost every day. There is even a consortium that is in talks with the Vic government to design EV's & charging stations with automated quick change battery packs for the few times that longer ranges are needed. Theres even battery packs in the wind with 15min recharge times!
Also 1 of the many bonuses u get with an EV is almost no serviceing costs! They have far fewer moving parts & therefore their servicing costs are almost zero - except for brakes & tyres. This is 1 of the many reasons y the major car companies haven't picked them up.
The batteries being made today - lithium based - are also now up to 98% recycable.

My plan is to have 2 cars, 1 an EV for 95% of my driving & for the couple of times a month that i actually go further than my charge capacity i'll have an ICE car - how many households today don't have 2 cars or more?????

I better get off my soap box or i'll be here typing all day. But believe me folks, EV's are here & they are a bee's whisker away from being truly viable the only thing standing in their way is the oil companies & car makers who don't want to loose their profit margins.
1 other little point, EV's don't need to be the 'tinker toy car' they have been made out to be, high performance EV's are here today but they are expensive (you can order a Tesla Roadsta today for a cool 90k) because they arn't in mass production - yet.

[Vernonv]

LPG is stored as a liquid in the bottle and transfered from cylinder to cylinder as a liquid' To supply liguid, the valve draws from the bottom of the cylinder (liquid reserve) rather than the top as for gas draw off for consumption.

Connecting a small vapour delivery bottle ( even a 9kg) to a larger bottle would effectively only equalise the vapour pressure in the connected cylinders, rather than transfer LPG in any significant quantity.

Invert the small bottle and hold it above the big bottle and the liquid will drain into the big bottle. It's certainly possible, but getting a hose with the correct fitting is very difficult.

[malb]

Was aware of that lurk Vernonv, but also aware that general hoses are not suitable and that the process must be done without a regulator in the system as:
1. the transfer must occur at storage pressures not consumption pressures
2. inadvertant liquid draw kills regs leading to potentially hazardous situations at later time.

Legally, at least in Vic, you must be licenced to operate decanting equipment, and gas equipment must be approved for purpose. I therefore decided to discuss the reasons for the decision that had been made, rather than suggest methods of circumventing it.

There is also potential to freeze the valve if you attempt to decant from an inverted smaller (low flow rate) cylinder into a larger cylinder. I have seen 9kg bottles freeze the valve while being filled and it's not nice knowing that there is a lot of energy stored in two interconnected cylinders that cannot be isolated because of a frozen valve.

[Vernonv]

Hi Malb

Was aware of that lurk Vernonv, but also aware that general hoses are not suitable and that the process must be done without a regulator in the system as:
1. the transfer must occur at storage pressures not consumption pressures
2. inadvertant liquid draw kills regs leading to potentially hazardous situations at later time.

Yes, quite correct. The hose can be a "normal" hose with a POL fitting and without a regulator. They are easy to get ... it's the fitting on the other end that is the problem (I think they call them ACME fittings). Also the method described is not a lurk, it is the only way to do it.

Legally, at least in Vic, you must be licenced to operate decanting equipment, and gas equipment must be approved for purpose. I therefore decided to discuss the reasons for the decision that had been made, rather than suggest methods of circumventing it.

There is also potential to freeze the valve if you attempt to decant from an inverted smaller (low flow rate) cylinder into a larger cylinder. I have seen 9kg bottles freeze the valve while being filled and it's not nice knowing that there is a lot of energy stored in two interconnected cylinders that cannot be isolated because of a frozen valve.

I doubt Victoria is alone in making the activity illegal or at least licensed, but it can be done safely if you understand how LPG "works". BTW In the 2 years that I owned an old HQ ute on LPG I never once had a freeze issue while filling and the volumes involved are much greater than from a gas bottle.